# Medics carrying weapons in WWII? And what happened to Jewish soldiers captured by Germans? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 5, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medics-carrying-weapons-in-wwii-and-what-happened-to-jewish-soldiers-captured-by-germans/527863 "2010-02-05T23:43:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medics-carrying-weapons-in-wwii-and-what-happened-to-jewish-soldiers-captured-by-germans/527863/41 "2013-03-20T19:30:25Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > A German dressed in a U.S. Army uniform and acting covertly like this wold not be covered under the Geneva convention as a prisoner of war I’m pretty sure. I believe he’d be treated as a spy and executed which is what happened. Using enemy uniform, flying enemy colors, or responding to enemy challenges as if you were on their side are all considered legal _ruse de guerres_, as long as you don’t actually engage while the deception is taking place, nor use the deception for gathering information. In WWII, the international law governing this would have been the 1907 Hague regulations, and they specifically outlaw “improper use of a flag of truce, of the national flag or of the military insignia and uniform of the enemy”. [Link](http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/4e473c7bc8854f2ec12563f60039c738/61cdd9e446504870c12563cd00516768!OpenDocument) Not much in the way of definition of what is “improper”, though, but at Skorzeny’s 1947 trial, he was in fact acquitted because the military tribunal drew a distinction between _wearing_ enemy uniform and _fighting_ in it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medics-carrying-weapons-in-wwii-and-what-happened-to-jewish-soldiers-captured-by-germans/527863/42 "2018-10-01T20:10:11Z")
Bumped. Here’s a U.S. Army medic who’s won the Medal of Honor for bravery under arms: [Ronald J. Shurer - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_J._Shurer) An earlier thread that may be of interest: [Are US Army doctors in the field armed? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=557320) ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medics-carrying-weapons-in-wwii-and-what-happened-to-jewish-soldiers-captured-by-germans/527863/43 "2018-10-02T11:36:39Z")
My dad was a medic (pharmacist’s mate) in the Navy in the Pacific. He carried the same weapon everyone in his team did. But since that team was underwater demolition (frogmen, predecessors to the SEALS) it was just a dive knife. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medics-carrying-weapons-in-wwii-and-what-happened-to-jewish-soldiers-captured-by-germans/527863/44 "2018-10-02T11:54:45Z")
OK, so you’re allowed to take weapons from enemy soldiers. Does that also apply to ceremonial weapons, like the swords some Japanese ([and British](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Churchill)) soldiers carried? I mean, they are weapons, after all, just as much as a bayonet is, but their primary value to their wielders is sentimental, and to their enemy, as souvenirs. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medics-carrying-weapons-in-wwii-and-what-happened-to-jewish-soldiers-captured-by-germans/527863/45 "2018-10-02T12:43:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, so you’re allowed to take weapons from enemy soldiers. Does that also apply to ceremonial weapons, like the swords some Japanese ([and British](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Churchill)) soldiers carried? I mean, they are weapons, after all, just as much as a bayonet is, but their primary value to their wielders is sentimental, and to their enemy, as souvenirs. I’d say that winning a defeated enemy’s sword (and armor) is one of the oldest military customs there are, dating back at least as far back as Homer. If you’re old-fashioned enough to carry a sword into battle, you should be old-fashioned enough to follow the ancient laws of war. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medics-carrying-weapons-in-wwii-and-what-happened-to-jewish-soldiers-captured-by-germans/527863/46 "2018-10-02T12:58:34Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > On the armed medic point, my Dad was an RAF doctor during the Burma campaign in 1944 and he has told me that during the siege of [Imphal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Imphal)nobody was a non-combatant. All units, including medical units, were expected to man their defensive perimeters during the night - the Japanese were constantly infiltrating and raiding. > > One story he has told me was that part of his job was to visit outlying units - hilltop radar stations etc - each day and he always carried a sten gun in the ambulance. I suspect the thinking was the Japanese were unlikely to take much notice of a red cross. The Japanese explicitly did not sign the Geneva Convention. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medics-carrying-weapons-in-wwii-and-what-happened-to-jewish-soldiers-captured-by-germans/527863/47 "2018-10-03T03:43:31Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > PSh, the holster for my [P.08](http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/aruvqan/222909_187629721284521_100001124828.jpg) still has teh remnants of the white medical tape with my dad’s name on it from where he checked it into the armory on the Queen Mary on his return trip to the US prior to being shipped off to the west coast to train up for the Japanese invasion force [that got more or less cancelled with the surrender] > > If looting sidearms was against the UCMJ, he wouldn’t have checked it into the armory because it was patently a German issue sidearm [the name of the issuee is written on the inside of the holster of that, and the Sauer 38H that he also checked into the armory for the trip back over] and would have gotten he and whomever else checked in weapons of German or Italian origin. I meant - if you were captured by the nazis and were carrying one of their lugers. Yeah, both sides looted for souvenirs all the time. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medics-carrying-weapons-in-wwii-and-what-happened-to-jewish-soldiers-captured-by-germans/527863/48 "2018-10-03T03:50:40Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > I used to think this was true, but really, how would anyone know? Was the red cross visiting POW camps to see how prisoners were being treated? If someone ‘disappeared’ from a POW camp the commandant could say they tried to escape and were shot. How would anyone know the truth? Yes, the Swiss red cross was visiting the POW camps. Read a POW book or even watch Stalag 17. ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medics-carrying-weapons-in-wwii-and-what-happened-to-jewish-soldiers-captured-by-germans/527863/49 "2018-10-03T08:26:24Z")
As a general rule agreed upon be the GC, medics were classified as non - combatants and were to be protected as such. From what I’ve e read the Germans mostly abided by this rule and did not target medics intentionally, although it isn’t unheard of that medics would be specifically targeted on occasion. However, this is not the case in the Pacific, where the Japanese wound completely ignore any protections provided by the Red Cross. It was very common to see American medics armed in the Pacific. In fact wounded Japanese would frequently hide a pistol or grenade and when an American medic would attempt to render aid to them would shoot the medic or blow both themselves and the medic up with a grenade. It happened so frequently that it became standard operating procedure to shoot wounded Japanese after a battle rather then risk helping them. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medics-carrying-weapons-in-wwii-and-what-happened-to-jewish-soldiers-captured-by-germans/527863/50 "2018-10-03T11:57:43Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Bumped. > > Here’s a U.S. Army medic who’s won the Medal of Honor for bravery under arms: [Ronald J. Shurer - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_J._Shurer) > > An earlier thread that may be of interest: [Are US Army doctors in the field armed? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=557320) I get to be a pedant. Some get touchy if you say the MoH is “won” or if you call a recipient a “MoH winner.” Just one of those things. > [@Chronos](#): > > OK, so you’re allowed to take weapons from enemy soldiers. Does that also apply to ceremonial weapons, like the swords some Japanese ([and British](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Churchill)) soldiers carried? I mean, they are weapons, after all, just as much as a bayonet is, but their primary value to their wielders is sentimental, and to their enemy, as souvenirs. It’s obvious that in the past it was allowed and easy to bring home souvenirs. Now war trophies are strictly forbidden and all shipments and mail are searched. It’s a big deal and very illegal. There were lots of hoops to jump through just to bring back items to be displayed at our unit headquarters. In the early parts of the Iraq war it may or may not have been much easier to sneak things through. Ernie Pyle supposedly said “The British fight for their homes, the Germans fight for glory, Americans fight for souvenirs.” ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medics-carrying-weapons-in-wwii-and-what-happened-to-jewish-soldiers-captured-by-germans/527863/51 "2018-10-03T13:04:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, the Swiss red cross was visiting the POW camps. Read a POW book or even watch Stalag 17. The Red Cross visits in Germany were just for show. The head of the German Red Cross was a brutal mass murderer. My uncle was in a Luftwaffe camp. (So better than a Heer stalag.) They knew when the Red Cross was coming because they got new blankets and their Red Cross packages. The inspectors took a quick peek around, left satisfied, and then everything was taken away. He hated the Red Cross’s phony inspection nonsense. And there was no Red Cross around during the [death marches](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_March_(1945)) the winter of 1945. Don’t kid yourselves. The Nazi’s treated US prisoners quite inhumanely. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medics-carrying-weapons-in-wwii-and-what-happened-to-jewish-soldiers-captured-by-germans/527863/52 "2018-10-03T20:04:54Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > … > > Ernie Pyle supposedly said “The British fight for their homes, the Germans fight for glory, Americans fight for souvenirs.” ! Don’t know what else to add to that on my part, actually. Remind me again who Ernie Pyle was–was this saying attributed to him during WWII? ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medics-carrying-weapons-in-wwii-and-what-happened-to-jewish-soldiers-captured-by-germans/527863/53 "2018-10-03T21:08:05Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > ! > > Don’t know what else to add to that on my part, actually. Remind me again who Ernie Pyle was–was this saying attributed to him during WWII? > **[Ernie Pyle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernie_Pyle)** > > Ernest Taylor Pyle (August 3, 1900 – April 18, 1945) was a Pulitzer Prize–winning American journalist and war correspondent who is best known for his stories about ordinary American soldiers during World War II. Pyle is also notable for the columns he wrote as a roving human-interest reporter from 1935 through 1941 for the Scripps-Howard newspaper syndicate that earned him wide acclaim for his simple accounts of ordinary people across North America. When the United States entered World War II, ... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medics-carrying-weapons-in-wwii-and-what-happened-to-jewish-soldiers-captured-by-germans/527863.md?page=2)