# Medieval peasant vs modern American diet- which is healthier? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 27, 2017, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-peasant-vs-modern-american-diet-which-is-healthier/778349 "2017-01-27T23:20:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-peasant-vs-modern-american-diet-which-is-healthier/778349/61 "2017-02-02T17:56:08Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Apples can be kept over the winter. But not everything was about maximizing the calorie intake, anyway. Otherwise, snails, locust or acorn bread would have been common dishes in medieval England. Liking cider is a perfectly good reason to produce cider, even if it means some waste. > > And as for the apple remains after pressing them, I’d bet they would have been fed to the pigs. Even when I was a kid, which wasn’t during the middle ages, anything marginally edible was fed to pigs by by farmer relatives. So, your apples would probably end as cider and sausages, which very conveniently, go well together. Cider and pork is a heavenly combo. Snails, locust are actually not often a good use of energy. Acorns require a lot of prep, but not if you feed them to pigs. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-peasant-vs-modern-american-diet-which-is-healthier/778349/62 "2017-02-02T19:28:37Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Most peasants did not have orchards, nor anything of the kind. They definitely had something “of the kind” - kitchen gardens and fruit tree plantings . Or is your expertise in peasant gardening better than the people who [actually research](https://books.google.co.za/books?id=fQhIPLiRQYgC&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=A+Little+History+Of+British+Gardening+garth&source=bl&ots=pvPW6CZX89&sig=Ro6HidLzOkAmSZOzlr4rblXwofE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiHtNz1kfLRAhULwmMKHTfbA-8Q6AEISDAM#v=onepage&q=A%20Little%20History%20Of%20British%20Gardening%20garth&f=false) this kind of thing? > [@](#): > > All the land they could plow was dedicated to grain and some vegetables, to ward off starvation. “The garden of the Arden peasant’s holding was an important, if poorly documented, resource. Apple, cherry, plum and pear trees seem to have been common on many holdings, as in 1463 at Erdington, where nearly all peasant holdings contained orchards. The range of crops cultivated on the peasant’s curtilage is poorly recorded, but the garden of Richard Sharpmore of Erdington was probably typical. In 1380 trespassing pigs ruined his vegetables, grass, beans and peas.” – Andrew Watkins, “Peasants in Arden”, in Richard Britnell, ed. Daily Life in the Late Middle Ages, (Stroud: Sutton Publishing, 1998), p 94. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-peasant-vs-modern-american-diet-which-is-healthier/778349/63 "2017-02-02T19:34:43Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > All the land they could plow was dedicated to grain and some vegetables, to ward off starvation. And if you think all they grew was pure subsistence calories, you really are displaying ignorance of the Medieval attitude towards garden produce, which was often as much medicine as it was mere food. Never mind all the non-edible things they had to grow, like flax, osiers & withies, wood for fire and making things, dyestuffs… ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-peasant-vs-modern-american-diet-which-is-healthier/778349/64 "2017-02-03T02:31:28Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Apples can be kept over the winter. But not everything was about maximizing the calorie intake, anyway. Otherwise, snails, locust or acorn bread would have been common dishes in medieval England. Liking cider is a perfectly good reason to produce cider, even if it means some waste. > > And as for the apple remains after pressing them, I’d bet they would have been fed to the pigs. Even when I was a kid, which wasn’t during the middle ages, anything marginally edible was fed to pigs by by farmer relatives. So, your apples would probably end as cider and sausages, which very conveniently, go well together. I bet it didn’t all go to the pigs; boiling down the leftovers from cider making is how you get apple butter. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-peasant-vs-modern-american-diet-which-is-healthier/778349/65 "2017-02-03T16:18:45Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And if you think all they grew was pure subsistence calories, you really are displaying ignorance of the Medieval attitude towards garden produce, which was often as much medicine as it was mere food. Never mind all the non-edible things they had to grow, like flax, osiers & withies, wood for fire and making things, dyestuffs… No, I’m well aware of all of that. What **MrDibble** is arguing for, and what I am arguing against, is the idea that peasants had a wide choice of apple varietals. They most definitely did not; a peasant diet was unfortunately pretty monotonous, not just in Europe, but in most of history for the world. They ate darn near anything edible, because they didn’t have the luxury. They most definitely did not get to casually pick from multiple varieties of a single fruit as pleased them. (I also do not agree with his strange idea that the modern “common man” is a culinary simpleton.) Additionally, much of what you describe happened on the edges of whatever land they controlled, and gathering fuel was often something which had to be managed on the local lord’s land. It could not necessarily be done without permission,and peasants would commonly use dried inedible plants in lieu of actual firewood. This, of course, is a picture that would be heavily modified depending on the time, place, and social class of the peasant involved. A Freeholder in the late Medeival period would have been in a far different position than a cottager three centuries earlier. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-peasant-vs-modern-american-diet-which-is-healthier/778349/66 "2017-02-03T16:47:51Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > They most definitely did not get to casually pick from multiple varieties of a single fruit as pleased them. Well, on that we agree, since that’s a complete strawman version of what I’ve said. > [@](#): > > Additionally, much of what you describe happened on the edges of whatever land they controlled, and gathering fuel was often something which had to be managed on the local lord’s land. Actually, a lot of that sort of thing happened on the commons, in hedgerows or the royal forest. But also in the kitchen garden. Like. I. Cited. > [@](#): > > It could not necessarily be done without permission,and peasants would commonly use dried inedible plants in lieu of actual firewood. Cite? Since estovers was a fairly widely established right, I’d love a cite that it was “common” to not have actual firewood (or turf or peat, where turbary took precedence over estovers). ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-peasant-vs-modern-american-diet-which-is-healthier/778349/67 "2017-02-03T21:23:00Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Diabetics were a HELL of a lot less common - if you had Type 1 you’d be lucky to survive two years, if that long. Prior to artificially produced insulin that could be injected into the body Type 1 diabetes was 100% lethal. One radical treatment for type I diabetics was starvation therapy. They literally starved children, giving them very small amounts of food. It severely limited calories, but had the benefit of somewhat controlling glucose. But that was just starting right before they developed artificial insulin, which made it obsolete. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-peasant-vs-modern-american-diet-which-is-healthier/778349/68 "2017-02-07T01:53:50Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > What about what they drank? The water couldn’t be trusted, so people had to drink light beer, whose alcohol content would kill at least some of the bacteria. Not very alcoholic, but it’s literally homebrewed beer. Moonshine. I wonder if people often went blind as a result of accidentally consuming methanol. (We don’t hear about plagues of that, though.) Moonshine is the product of distillation. Beer is not distilled. I don’t think there would be a danger of methanol. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-peasant-vs-modern-american-diet-which-is-healthier/778349/69 "2017-02-07T03:46:25Z")
Peas porridge hot Peas porridge cold Peas porridge in the pot, Nine days old. What a splendid diet. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-peasant-vs-modern-american-diet-which-is-healthier/778349/70 "2017-02-07T06:20:55Z")
_Pease_ porridge. And that rhyme is hardly medieval. ---
**Author:** ![apLundell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aplundell/32/14656_2.png) [@apLundell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apLundell)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-peasant-vs-modern-american-diet-which-is-healthier/778349/71 "2017-02-10T18:52:11Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > This is pretty absurd, and the implication outside of the enlightened “urban trendsters” nobodies eats vegetables is frankly ridiculous. You can walk into nearly any supermarket in America and find between four and six varieties of apple, depending on the season. Maybe in upper-middle-class regions, but allow me to provide a counter-example. I recently lived in a poor town in New England. Residents without cars (and there were a lot of them) basically had two choices for supermarkets unless they wanted to spend all day switching buses. There was the grocery store by the strip-mall. Its “produce” section was mostly lettuces, onions, and potatoes. There was also a table at the end that, when it had anything on it, had bunches of bananas and plastic containers of rather dubious tomatoes. Then there was the grocery store downtown next to the police station. No produce section. None. There was a rack of bananas near checkout. That’s it. This is a full-sized supermarket I’m talking about. (Both stores had canned and frozen vegetables available.) There was also a tiny local grocery who seemed to specialize in Latin-American stuff. I don’t recall them having apples. I suppose they might have, but the only thing they had more than one variety of was cigarettes. If those are the “typical Americans” you’re talking about, it doesn’t seem at **all** unlikely that a peasant with a few fruit trees in his garden might consume a greater variety of fresh fruits. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-peasant-vs-modern-american-diet-which-is-healthier/778349.md?page=3)