# Medieval superstions alive, well **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522 "2003-12-07T06:41:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satisfying_Andy_Licious)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/1 "2003-12-07T06:41:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Two women in the pews of St. Patrick’s Cathedral wept quietly. Several more knelt at the brass altar rail, their heads bowed before the half-inch-square bit of cloth. A volunteer handed out petals from the sprays of red roses behind her. > > In the culminating stop of a 20-city tour, [a piece of the venerated cloak, or tilma, of St. Juan Diego](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/06/nyregion/06RELI.html?ex=1071378000&en=a4562a96bb497885&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE) arrived at the cathedral yesterday and took its place on a side altar beneath a portrait of the Virgin Mary known as Our Lady of Guadalupe. > > It was a rare event for St. Patrick’s, the first display of a relic since 1999, when the bones of St. Therese of Lisieux were viewed by 15,000 people. … > > The relic was cut from what believers say was the cloak of Juan Diego, an Aztec Indian convert to Catholicism who had a vision of the Virgin in 1531. Her image was said to have miraculously appeared on the cloak, which is now the object of passionate worship at the basilica in Mexico City. So what? Her image has miraculously appeared on the window of tire dealerships. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/2 "2003-12-07T07:19:43Z")
Indeed. I love Catholocism; I wish some Catholics would refrain from venerating tiny squares of cloth, or whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/3 "2003-12-07T07:20:05Z")
I clicked on a [link](http://members.aol.com/jocatholic/mary1.jpg) and the Virgin Mary miraculously appeared on my computer screen! People are already lining up around the block to see it. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/4 "2003-12-07T08:00:02Z")
Whatever happened to the rule against graven images? Or was that in the #11-15 slab that Moses dropped? ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/5 "2003-12-07T08:47:28Z")
Oh good grief. It makes them feel especially close to someone who is obviously very important to him. If you’re going to pit them, include with them my father who weeps openly every Easter during the solemn process of remembrance of the Passion of Christ. Do we find it silly? Many of us, sure. Would a lot of other folks who don’t get the SDMB find our worship (well, some of us worship him;)) of Cecil bizarre and unnecessary? Yeah. Does either outsider opinion invalidate the other group’s actions? Fuck no. **SPOOFE** , my guess would be that they are not worshipping it as a graven image but as a representation of God (same argument you’d get from many for the veneration of the crucifix and any number of other activities and such). YM, as always, MV. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/6 "2003-12-07T09:09:31Z")
**SPOOFE** : I’m sure Catholics would tell you that they pray to God _through_ the relics, much like they use rosary beads as focuses of attention. Besides, it’s easier for the human mind to empathize with a human being than with an infinite, all-knowing, all-perfect supreme divine being. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/7 "2003-12-07T14:21:43Z")
Situations like this always make me think of a story I read in the “Fortean Times,” about a mysterious, black-and-white image of Jesus that appeared on the side of a freshly painted church in Mexico. Hordes of people showed up. There were a couple of miraculous healings. Refreshments were sold. It made the news in Mexico City. A team of scientists came out from Mexico City to investigate. It took them less than 24 hours to discover that whoever had painted the church had painted over a black-and-white poster that had been on the side of the church, and the ink had bled through. Three miracles and a couple weeks of general chaos were attributable to the Sacred Image of Willie Nelson… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/8 "2003-12-07T16:58:41Z")
When I see stories like this, I always wonder what makes people think that any image of a woman must be Mary. I mean, why can’t it be Isis or Athena or something? It’s not like anyone knows what Mary looked like, so why the automatic assumption? Maybe the picture on the taco or the window doesn’t look anything like her. ---
**Author:** ![\_possum\_stalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/b77776/32.png) [@\_possum\_stalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_possum_stalker)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/9 "2003-12-07T17:19:48Z")
Juan was a very recent convert to Catholicism, and had his vision on the site of a former Aztec temple to the Aztec earth and fertility goddess Tonantzin. Maybe the title should read “pre-Columbian superstitions alive, well.” ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/10 "2003-12-07T17:51:30Z")
They had a segment on the news about this, but never showed the “image.” Does anyone have a link to what this Mary is supposed to look like? ---
**Author:** ![NothingMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b77776/32.png) [@NothingMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NothingMan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/11 "2003-12-07T18:24:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > \*\* Would a lot of other folks who don’t get the SDMB find our worship (well, some of us worship him;) of Cecil bizarre and unnecessary? \*\* **Cecil** ’s image appeared on a cheese pizza I ordered last night. Should I be expecting pilgrims at my door? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/12 "2003-12-07T18:30:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NothingMan \* > \*\ ***Cecil** ’s image appeared on a cheese pizza I ordered last night. Should I be expecting pilgrims at my door? \*\* I’m on my way. Don’t eat the pizza!! ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/13 "2003-12-07T18:32:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Master Wang-Ka \* > \*\* Three miracles and a couple weeks of general chaos were attributable to the Sacred Image of Willie Nelson… \*\* Only the beginning, brother, only the beginning. Wait till he dies – livers being healed, taxes mysteriously being paid… ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/14 "2003-12-07T18:40:02Z")
mmmm… leader beans… ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/15 "2003-12-07T18:43:34Z")
Oh, Yay, Catholic-bashing is fun! Definitely in the interest of fighting ignorance, and all. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satisfying_Andy_Licious)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/16 "2003-12-07T19:39:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > **Oh, Yay, Catholic-bashing is fun!** Yep. Just ask the guy who did in Joseph Pilger. > [@](#): > > Definitely in the interest of fighting ignorance, and all. :rolleyes: It sure is, especially when you reflect on those stories about how three different churches have the skull of one saint, and five have his thigh bone. ---
**Author:** ![Gamaliel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b487fb/32.png) [@Gamaliel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gamaliel)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/17 "2003-12-07T19:48:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Satisfying Andy Licious \* > \*\*It sure is, especially when you reflect on those stories about how three different churches have the skull of one saint, and five have his thigh bone. \*\* Well, there weren’t enough parts to go around. Loaves and fishes, bones, the principle is the same. ---
**Author:** ![Nvme77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Nvme77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nvme77)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/18 "2003-12-07T19:53:19Z")
The opiate of the masses- religion- and it helps in many places of poverty. But I can’t believe that it maintains their ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/19 "2003-12-07T20:17:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Satisfying Andy Licious \* > \*\*… three different churches have the skull of one saint, and five have his thigh bone. \*\* It’s a _ **MIRACLE!** _ ;j ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522/20 "2003-12-07T21:43:59Z")
Catholic bashing is fun! > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Satisfying Andy Licious \* > **Yep. Just ask the guy who did in Joseph Pilger.** So you consider murdering a Catholic priest “fun”? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medieval-superstions-alive-well/217522.md?page=2)