# Meenie7's invisible friend **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 22, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409 "2008-07-22T19:38:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/581 "2008-08-02T20:20:42Z")
There’s nothing wrong with having an imaginary friend. When you’re six. As an adult, it’s just pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/582 "2008-08-02T20:25:08Z")
You also don’t know that it’s benign. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/583 "2008-08-02T20:43:52Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] You also don’t know that it’s benign. [/QUOTE] You don’t know that he’s malicious, either. And there’s no compelling evidence to think so. Marcus has existed in Meenie’s head for several years, and in all that time he hasn’t changed. What leads you to assume that a total neurological breakdown is inevitable? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/584 "2008-08-02T21:01:49Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] You don’t know that he’s malicious, either. And there’s no compelling evidence to think so. Marcus has existed in Meenie’s head for several years, and in all that time he hasn’t changed. What leads you to assume that a total neurological breakdown is inevitable? [/QUOTE] We don’t…but wouldn’t it be the most logical thing to do, see a neurologist if you’re having delusions or hallucinations? ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/585 "2008-08-02T21:16:33Z")
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit] …but wouldn’t it be the most logical thing to do, see a neurologist if you’re having delusions or hallucinations? [/QUOTE] If the delusions are interfering with your daily life, or causing harm to the people around you, then yes, medical intervention would absolutely be in order. If that’s not the case…why worry? As long as Meenie has complete control, there’s no immediate problem. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/586 "2008-08-02T21:21:24Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] If the delusions are interfering with your daily life, or causing harm to the people around you, then yes, medical intervention would absolutely be in order. If that’s not the case…why worry? As long as Meenie has complete control, there’s no immediate problem. [/QUOTE] But what if they are benign, but they have some underlying cause that IS harmful? ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/587 "2008-08-02T21:28:57Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] And just because science can’t “prove” the existence of ghosts and spirits doesn’t mean it never will. Give it time. [/QUOTE] Give it time? It’s been a few thousand years… how much time do you need? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/588 "2008-08-02T21:33:54Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] You don’t know that he’s malicious, either. And there’s no compelling evidence to think so. Marcus has existed in Meenie’s head for several years, and in all that time he hasn’t changed. What leads you to assume that a total neurological breakdown is inevitable? [/QUOTE] How about some cites for people with psychotic disorders who live happily ever after? It’s irresponsible to tell somebody with hallucinations that they’re fine and don’t need to get checked out. What’s the _harm_ in going to a neurologist? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/589 "2008-08-02T21:37:22Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] If that’s not the case…why worry? As long as Meenie has complete control, there’s no immediate problem. [/QUOTE] If she’s hallucinating, she doesn’t have control. If there’s nothing wrong with her, then a vist to a neurologisr doen’t hurt at all. I can’t see what you think she has to _gain_ by not getting checked out. Who are you to just declare her comndition benign and tell her she doesn’t need a doctor? What qualifies you to give her a clean bill of health? ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/590 "2008-08-02T22:09:50Z")
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit] But what if they are benign, but they have some underlying cause that IS harmful? [/QUOTE] You’re looking at it wrong. Meenie has already admitted to having severe abandonment issues, as evidence by a pattern of close personal relationships with people who suddenly disown her, with no apparent rhyme or reason. Most likely, these issues stem from some type of childhood trauma or even psychological abuse from her caregivers at a young age – just speculating, of course, but that’s typically how it happens. So these issues existed LONG before Marcus came into the picture. Indeed, Marcus appears to be a _solution_ to the problem – a temporary solution, and an esoteric one no doubt, but a solution nonetheless. I’d even wager that Marcus’s existence has enabled Meenie to lead a much more functional life than she would have without him – she hasn’t had any blackouts or panic attacks in the last six years, or at least she hasn’t admitted to them. Sure, she could benefit from psychotherapy. Who wouldn’t? The tricky part is finding someone who will respect Marcus as a genuine human entity. It’s clear that Marcus has his own awareness and can even interact with the physical world in a limited fashion; in that case, he’s not that much different from a ghost. It doesn’t matter – in the long run, Meenie needs to reach a point where she doesn’t _need_ Marcus anymore, and can let him go. Marcus needs to do the same thing. But it needs to be done on her own timetable; NOT for the benefit of allaying somebody else’s CNN-induced fears. By the way, if Marcus WAS a genuine ghost, I’d recommend the same course of action. If Marcus really IS a 19th century teenager who’s “stuck between worlds”, then he needs to let go of his former life and move towards the light…eventually. (Heck, it’s been 200 years, what’s the rush?) Telling him to go away or medicating him out of existence will NOT help, it will only make things worse. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/591 "2008-08-02T22:19:42Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] How about some cites for people with psychotic disorders who live happily ever after? [/QUOTE] By “psychotic disorders”, do you mean suicidal thoughts, attempts at suicide, have been hospitalized in a psych ward, and are currently fine without therapy or anti-psychotic medication? Because that’s me. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/592 "2008-08-02T22:49:28Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] You’re looking at it wrong. [/quote] That’s your opinion but it’s not the only way of looking at it. You’re basically talking out your ass and have been all thread. > [@](#): > > Meenie has already admitted to having severe abandonment issues… Indeed, Marcus appears to be a _solution_ to the problem – a temporary solution, and an esoteric one no doubt, but a solution nonetheless. Wait… so, rather than figure out what happened to her to cause her to have such severe anxiety about abandonment, let her believe she has a ghost friend? Or, perhaps there is something about HER that causes people to abandon her, not without cause as she alleges, and her retreat into a fantasy world only further alienates her from people and perhaps even causes the abandonment. Allowing her to perpetuate the Marcus delusion then in fact is NOT a solution but part of the problem, a rather concrete manifestation of her inability to relate to real people. Why would you want her to cling to this instead of figuring out why she can’t have successful, lasting relationships with real people? And I’d say that even if he was a real ghost. Relationships with live humans are still vastly preferable. > [@](#): > > I’d even wager that Marcus’s existence has enabled Meenie to lead a much more functional life than she would have without him – she hasn’t had any blackouts or panic attacks in the last six years, or at least she hasn’t admitted to them. I’d wager that Marcus has made it worse by enabling her to stop trying to deal with real people. Sometimes black outs and panic attacks are your psyche’s way of telling you to get help, and blocking out challenging experiences or not trying to deal with your issues is not the best way to get them to stop. > [@](#): > > The tricky part is finding someone who will respect Marcus as a genuine human entity. Couldn’t disagree more, considering that he isn’t a genuine human entity. > [@](#): > > It’s clear that Marcus has his own awareness and can even interact with the physical world in a limited fashion; in that case, he’s not that much different from a ghost. How is it “clear” that Marcus has his own awareness? I would say that’s absolutely not clear and that the majority of people posting to this thread do not believe that he has a separate awareness from meenie’s. > [@](#): > > It doesn’t matter – in the long run, Meenie needs to reach a point where she doesn’t _need_ Marcus anymore, and can let him go. Marcus needs to do the same thing. But it needs to be done on her own timetable; NOT for the benefit of allaying somebody else’s CNN-induced fears. Marcus does not need to do anything, as he does not exist. If meenie wants to understand why her real life relationships go the way they do, that’s likely going to be painful, in a way that her relationship with her imaginary friend, who is under her control, is not. It’s going to be a difficult process, and living in a fantasy world is much easier. It’s hard to tell her to stop being happy with her ghost in order to get to the bottom of her issues, and it’s not my job to do that, nor is a Pit thread the way to convince her. But your perception of what’s going on with her and the best way to deal with it seems completely ridiculous to me. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/593 "2008-08-02T22:50:17Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] By “psychotic disorders”, do you mean suicidal thoughts, attempts at suicide, have been hospitalized in a psych ward, and are currently fine without therapy or anti-psychotic medication? Because that’s me. [/QUOTE] I’m talking about people with _untreated_ psychotic disorders. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/594 "2008-08-02T22:59:45Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] You’re looking at it wrong. [/quote] No, _you’re_ looking at it wrong. She has nothing to gain and possibly everything to lose by not checking to see if there is a neurological or other physiological cause for these symptoms. > [@](#): > > Sure, she could benefit from psychotherapy. Psychotherapy is neither here nor there. We’re only suggesting purely physiological examinations of her brain. There may not be any psychological component at all. > [@](#): > > The tricky part is finding someone who will respect Marcus as a genuine human entity. This is absurd. There is no possibility that Marcus is any such thing, and no mental health professional could ever pretend otherwise. > [@](#): > > It’s clear that Marcus has his own awareness and can even interact with the physical world in a limited fashion In what physical universe is this “clear?” This is an utterly ridiculous assertion. It is not physically possible for Marcus to have “his own awareness.” There IS NO MARCUS. There is NO POSSIBILITY THAT MARCUS IS REAL (and "real to _her_ doesn’t count). ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/595 "2008-08-02T23:06:48Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] You also don’t know that it’s benign. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It’s irresponsible to tell somebody with hallucinations that they’re fine and don’t need to get checked out. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] If she’s hallucinating, she doesn’t have control. [/quote] > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > She has nothing to gain and possibly everything to lose by not checking to see if there is a neurological or other physiological cause for these symptoms. Oh geez, where to start. :rolleyes: **Diogenes** , I’m starting to realize that you’re NOT just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. You really do believe in what you say, and you can’t even recognize the covert hostility that spews from your own mouth. Bottom line is, you need stress management. I think you’ve spent so much time working with dangerous schizophrenics and abused children, that you’re starting to see dangerous schizophrenics and abused children _everywhere._ You simply can’t accept the possibility of somebody entertaining a benign delusion, because in YOUR professional experience, there’s no such thing. Am I close? I do sympathize, by the way. Working in the human services industry is extraordinarily stressful, and it can color your perceptions of ordinary human behavior. I’m concerned because it’s clearly starting to affect your ability to treat people with courtesy and respect, and I’d wager that’s affecting your personal life as well, whether you realize it or not. Take a vacation. Find a new job as gardener or something. Meditate, clean your chakras, get a prescription for Xanax, or whatever. It doesn’t matter – just, for heaven’s sake, find a way to STOP THE STRESS from taking over your life! Please, if not for your sake, for the sake of your friends and family. Just stop. > [@](#): > > What qualifies you to give her a clean bill of health? Common experience, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/596 "2008-08-02T23:11:26Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] Oh geez, where to start. :rolleyes: **Diogenes** , I’m starting to realize that you’re NOT just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. You really do believe in what you say, and you can’t even recognize the covert hostility that spews from your own mouth. [/quote] Ah yes, the ad hominem attack, rather than addressing the very cogent points made against your stance. Excellent rhetoric, changing the subject. You don’t have a leg to stand on here. You’re telling Diogenes to please stop, and now I’m telling you to please stop. Please-- stop. > [@](#): > > Common experience, maybe? If you think you can give someone a clean bill of health based solely on their 400 message board postings, many of which revolved around discussing an entity that does not exist, well, you’re working on your own delusion there, buddy. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/597 "2008-08-02T23:46:35Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] How about some cites for people with psychotic disorders who live happily ever after? [/QUOTE] Well, there was the recent example of U.S. President. . . . ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2008, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/598 "2008-08-03T01:21:12Z")
None of us are qualified to give her a clean bill of health. If “common experience” were enough, we’d need no medical experts. Anyway, I personally can’t say either way what Marcus is or is not. But you haven’t answered what the harm is in seeing a neurologist about it. In order to ascertain that he is a ghost, whether benign or not, we first have to rule out all other options, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/599 "2008-08-03T01:29:38Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] Oh geez, where to start. :rolleyes: **Diogenes** , I’m starting to realize that you’re NOT just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. You really do believe in what you say [/QUOTE] You mean he _really_ doesn’t believe there is a ghost talking to some lady on the internet?! :eek: The humanity! ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2008, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409/600 "2008-08-03T01:39:39Z")
[QUOTE=Rubystreak] Ah yes, the ad hominem attack, rather than addressing the very cogent points made against your stance. Excellent rhetoric, changing the subject. [/quote] I’m not the only person here who’s accused Diogenes of acting like an asshole. Isn’t that part of the subject? When the subject deals with a person, isn’t it within bounds to discuss that person’s motives and behaviors? [QUOTE=Freudian Slit] But you haven’t answered what the harm is in seeing a neurologist about it. In order to ascertain that he is a ghost, whether benign or not, we first have to rule out all other options, yes? [/QUOTE] She’s already seen a neurologist. Her CAT scan was negative. Since then, she hasn’t presented any new symptoms that would indicate her “problem” is anything more than psychological. “What’s the harm,” you ask? How about time and money? Besides, you guys are just badgering her at this point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meenie7s-invisible-friend/457409.md?page=31)