# Mel Gibson dials it up to 11 with new telephone recording. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490 "2010-07-13T03:07:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/201 "2010-07-15T01:17:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I also don’t need anybody telling me how I feel about the victim. Some of the public responses to the victim are more infuriating to me than Mel’s behavior itself. I still don’t really feel any hatred of Gibson. He’s just crazy. The smears against the victim are what really piss me off. That’s exactly why a lot of DV victims don’t try to get help. Yeah, I’m guessing most abused women don’t seek help because they’re afraid they’ll be called gold diggers on message boards. Especially if they’re gold diggers. This is reminding me a bit of the political forums in which if you dislike Bush/Cheney then you apparently must think that Obama/Biden are absolutely infallible or vice versa. The fact Mel’s a violent psycho doesn’t mean his girlfriend is a wonderful person anymore than the fact that his girlfriend isn’t a wonderful person means she deserves to get beaten. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/202 "2010-07-15T01:29:39Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Yeah, I’m guessing most abused women don’t seek help because they’re afraid they’ll be called gold diggers on message boards. Especially if they’re gold diggers. When they’re involved with rich or prominent men, that is a common accusation, but the _specific_ accusation doesn’t matter. The point is they’re always accused of _something_ or of deserving it _somehow_, no matter how much evidence they’ve got. Throwing that accusation around is just useless, gratuitous and mean spirited. It’s like continually piping up to point out that the Green River Killer’s victims were prostitutes. Who gives a shit? You don’t even have any proof for the “gold digger” accusation. It’s not something that she can _dis_prove, and it poisons the well. Whether you intend it or not, it comes off as an insinuation that she deserved to be abused. Whether or not she is a “gold digger” is simply _not relevant_. I don’t remember ever having a disagreement with you before, **Sampiro** , but you’re misguided on this one. The “gold digger” things _sounds_ misogynist and victim-blaming even if you don’t mean it to. I have personal experience with living in a DV household as a small child, seeing my mother abused, and seeing her abuser (who could charm the paint off the walls when he wanted to) bullshit everybody that she was crazy or making things up when she tried to talk about it. It drives me nuts when people just can’t accept a battered woman as a battered woman. No, none of them are morally perfect. Some of them might have even entered relationships for bad reasons. So what? > [@](#): > > The fact Mel’s a violent psycho doesn’t mean his girlfriend is a wonderful person anymore than the fact that his girlfriend isn’t a wonderful person means she deserves to get beaten. I never said she was a wonderful person. I’m saying that what kind of person she is isn’t _relevant_, and isn’t helpful or kind to speculate about. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/203 "2010-07-15T01:32:58Z")
> [@diogenes the cynic](#): > > when they’re involved with rich or prominent men, that is a common accusation, but the _specific_ accusation doesn’t matter. The point is they’re always accused of _something_ or of deserving it _somehow_, no matter how much evidence they’ve got. Throwing that accusation around is just useless, gratuitous and mean spirited. It’s like piping up to say that the green river killer’s victims were prostitutes. Who gives a shit? > > You don’t even have any proof for the “gold digger” accusation. It’s not something that she can _dis_prove, and it poisons the well. Whether you intend it or not, it comes off as an insinuation that she deserved to be abused. Whether or not she is a “gold digger” is simply _not relevant_. > > I don’t remember ever having a disagreement with you before, **sampiro** , but you’re misguided on this one. The “gold digger” things _sounds_ misogynist and victim-blaming even if you don’t mean it to. > > I have personal experience with living in a dv household as a small child, seeing my mother abused, and seeing her abuser (who could charm the paint off the walls when he wanted to) bullshit everybody that she was crazy or making things up when she tried to talk about it. It drives me nuts when people just can’t accept a battered woman as a battered woman. No, none of them are morally perfect. Some of them might have even entered relationships for bad reasons. So what? > > I never said she was a wonderful person. I’m saying that what kind of person she is isn’t _relevant_, and isn’t helpful or kind to speculate about. _exactly_!!! WHAT THE HELL? NOT ONLY DID TYPING IN ALL CAPS EDIT ALL MY LETTERS INTO LOWERCASE, IT TURNED ALL OF DIO’S UPPERCASE LETTERS INTO LOWERCASE LETTERS TOO. THAT’S ODD. Edit Again: And it didn’t change that sentence into lowercase! This board is screwy. Anyway, the point is that Dio’s right on the money with this one. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/204 "2010-07-15T01:38:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Do you believe there are any DV victims who are perfect, sinless, flawless human beings? Where have I said I think she deserves DV? In fact I’ve said exactly the opposite. [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] You don’t even have any proof for the “gold digger” accusation. It’s not something that she can _dis_prove, and it poisons the well. Whether you intend it or not, it comes off as an insinuation that she deserved to be abused. Whether or not she is a “gold digger” is simply _not relevant_. [/quote] Actually we’ve had many. Most recent to come to mind is Leslie Van Houten. Not that I see the relevance, this being _this_ issue, and I’m not attacking you as a person- I just disagree with you. Will you concede the _possibility_ the fact he’s worth hundreds of millions of dollars was probably an attraction? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/205 "2010-07-15T01:40:39Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Mel Gibson the actor was so popular with female movie goers because he was handsome and _charming_. He built his whole career on being super hot and lovable. Even in **Lethal Weapon** , where the focus wasn’t on a romance or personal loss, he’s appealing because he’s smart and funny and a bit dangerous and clearly full of pain–a very appealing combination. Now, I’m not saying Mel Gibson is one of the acting greats, but he certainly has some skills. Is it such a stretch then that he might have actually won her over? Charmed her? Seduced her? Swept her off her street? Fooled her? He’s clearly not a slobbering maniac in public often. He’s had one very public drunken meltdown a handful of years ago. If he behaved like this on a regular basis, then these recordings wouldn’t be so surprising (and surprisingly controversial). > > He might have been able to pull the wool over her eyes long enough to get her into a relationship and then continued treating her like abusers treat their victims–belittled her, intimidated her, beat her, isolated her from her friends, and generally reduced her humanity until she was reliant on him and terrified for her life. Anything’s possible, but to be frank, even before this episode, and the sugar tits scenario, he really did have a reputation as kind of a world class tool in terms of his interpersonal dealings with people. If you are willing to be with someone who is generous and kind to you, but is an abusive rageaholic to others, it’s kind of stupid to think this behavior is not coming home to your doorstep at some point. I really have trouble thinking that a relatively sophisticated woman with advanced degrees in her late 30’s has absolutely no idea what she was getting into with him, especially considering his reputation as a nasty nut bag with a toxic temper if he gets annoyed. She’s no gold digger, but she’s (IMO) not a wide eyed innocent either. She in no way deserves his violent craziness, but when he started to turn on her she was very calculated in her response, and her move was the right one tactically in terms of pinning him to the wall with the recordings. The problem is that unless she can get some kind of court judgement she’s shot her load. Other than proving he’s skinning babies for fun there’s not much more you could do to damage him that the tapes have not done. They are not married so if she cannot get a judgement he assaulted her, other than CS, they are kind of done. What surprises me is that when she threatened him with the tapes originally to force him to cough up a financial settlement (and yes, I very much believe this occurred) that he would not be scrambling to write a big ass check to keep her quiet is astounding given the contents of the tapes. That he would not do this convinces me he really is utterly nuts on some level. How could he not think these would not hit his career like neutron bomb? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/206 "2010-07-15T01:46:38Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Where have I said I think she deserves DV? In fact I’ve said exactly the opposite. What is the relevance of calling her a gold digger? How is it germane to the conversation? If you agree it does not justify the abuse or have any relevance, then what is the point in bringing it up? > [@](#): > > Will you concede the _possibility_ the fact he’s worth hundreds of millions of dollars was probably an attraction? First I’d like to hear you explain why you think the reason she was attracted to him is relevant. My answer is of course it’s possible, but _so what_? What difference does it make? Why even mention it? ETA I forgot about Van Houten already and it wasn’t even that long ago. I’m getting senile already and I’m only in my mid-40’s. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/207 "2010-07-15T01:48:12Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I have personal experience with living in a DV household as a small child, seeing my mother abused, and seeing her abuser (who could charm the paint off the walls when he wanted to) bullshit everybody that she was crazy or making things up when she tried to talk about it. “Miss… we have another debate to get to, could you please bring our _relevance check_?” I don’t think that Gibson has exactly charmed anybody into believing he’s anything other than a bleeding violent psycho. The only defense I personally have heard of him at all is from Whoopi Goldberg who says she doesn’t think he’s racist (against blacks anyway), though personally I don’t think non-racists use the language he used. Your own experience- while regrettable- doesn’t give you special insight into the character of this particular woman. And again since it seems to be visible only to me where I’ve typed it before: I have never once doubted she’s abused and in fear of her life or said or implied that she deserves to be abused or in fear of her life. As for her not being able to disprove she’s a gold digger- not that anybody asked her to- you can’t disprove that Mel’s acting and it’s a bizarre sex game they play and she’s taped it, but the odds are pretty strong against it, and I think the odds are pretty strong against her thinking Mel was Prince Charming when she entered into an extramarital affair with him long after he was branded a psycho by the media. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/208 "2010-07-15T01:52:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What is the relevance of calling her a gold digger? How is it germane to the conversation? If you agree it does not justify the abuse or have any relevance, then what is the point in bringing it up? > > First I’d like to hear you explain why you think the reason she was attracted to him is relevant. > > My answer is of course it’s possible, but _so what_? What difference does it make? Why even mention it? I agree with you. Of course it’s possible that she’s a gold digger, of course! To me bringing it up in this situation reeks of talking about “but she’s a prostitute!” if a hooker gets raped and/or murdered. People think it’s harmless to point this stuff out and DUH we’re on a messageboard but let’s not be ridiculous, this stuff happens IRL and not just on the internet. These feelings and opinions are out there even if you don’t SAY it. No wonder so many victims of sexual abuse, rape, DV, and many other types of crimes are so unwilling to put themselves through being raked over the coals. It’s sad. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/209 "2010-07-15T01:53:16Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > “Miss… we have another debate to get to, could you please bring our _relevance check_?” > > I don’t think that Gibson has exactly charmed anybody into believing he’s anything other than a bleeding violent psycho. The only defense I personally have heard of him at all is from Whoopi Goldberg who says she doesn’t think he’s racist (against blacks anyway), though personally I don’t think non-racists use the language he used. > > Your own experience- while regrettable- doesn’t give you special insight into the character of this particular woman. And again since it seems to be visible only to me where I’ve typed it before: I have never once doubted she’s abused and in fear of her life or said or implied that she deserves to be abused or in fear of her life. As for her not being able to disprove she’s a gold digger- not that anybody asked her to- you can’t disprove that Mel’s acting and it’s a bizarre sex game they play and she’s taped it, but the odds are pretty strong against it, and I think the odds are pretty strong against her thinking Mel was Prince Charming when she entered into an extramarital affair with him long after he was branded a psycho by the media. But again, if you don’t think it justifies the abuse, why did you even bring it up? Is Mel Gibson the victim of her awful using usingness? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/210 "2010-07-15T01:55:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What is the relevance of calling her a gold digger? How is it germane to the conversation? If you agree it does not justify the abuse or have any relevance, then what is the point in bringing it up? > > First I’d like to hear you explain why you think the reason she was attracted to him is relevant. > > My answer is of course it’s possible, but _so what_? What difference does it make? Why even mention it? > > ETA I forgot about Van Houten already and it wasn’t even that long ago. I’m getting senile already and I’m only in my mid-40’s. I think you guys are arguing at cross purposes. It’s entirely possible for her to be a victim of DV, AND a woman with a huge attraction to wealthy and powerful men who is very interested in how being with them can advance her own goals and interests. These aren’t mutually exclusive sets. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/211 "2010-07-15T01:56:43Z")
> [@astro](#): > > They are not married so if she cannot get a judgement he assaulted her Huh? What are you talking about? What does being married have to do with it? She says on the tapes that she doesn’t want money, by the way, and she’s not the one who leaked them. Accusations of extortion lack evidence at this point, and frankly, I think they’re ridiculous. It sounds to me like she just wanted him to leave her alone and quit threatening to kill her. DV victims aren’t typically into trying to further provoke and enrage their abusers. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/212 "2010-07-15T01:59:46Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I think you guys are arguing at cross purposes. It’s entirely possible for her to be a victim of DV, AND a woman with a huge attraction to wealthy and powerful men who is very interested in how being with them can advance her own goals and interests. These aren’t mutually exclusive sets. True, but to bring up one point in the same context as the other poisons the well. Would Mel Gibson be any less of an abuser if she wasn’t a gold digger? Would he be less abusive to a woman who was not a gold digger? Did her being a gold digger cause him to be a batterer? The answer to all those questions is no, and therefore not only is it not relevant, but it has a potentially chilling effect on other DV victims. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/213 "2010-07-15T02:02:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What is the relevance of calling her a gold digger? How is it germane to the conversation? If you agree it does not justify the abuse or have any relevance, then what is the point in bringing it up? Because we’re discussing Mel Gibson fighting with his girlfriend and she’s the girlfriend. This is a CS society on a celebrity altercation and if everybody stuck only to the tapes it’d be rather a short one. The fact she’s Russian isn’t relevant but it’s been mentioned and nobody seems upset about it, or the fact she was involved with Timothy Dalton or the fact she’s a model/actress/singer- in fact really the only thing relevant about her is that she had a baby with Mel Gibson and he beat her up and threatened her. Now if you want to stick to that and that alone this would be a rather short thread: Poster 1: Mel Gibson’s got a helluva temper on him. Poster 2: Yup Poster 3: Yep Poster 4: Yeah meanol sumbitch tood righter there and knocked that gal’s dangol teeth ins gotta baby on her titty when he did it shouldn’t oughtta do a woman that way dang ol sumbitch Maverick Rinse lather repeat. [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] First I’d like to hear you explain why you think the reason she was attracted to him is relevant. [/quote] Uh… what’s the relevance to anyone here whether Mel Gibson brought her flowers or tried to disembowel her on national TV? Approximately none. It’s a Pointless Recreational Outrage Suitable Escapism (PROSE) thread pure and simple. If it were a debate- “should a gold digger get her ass whipped?”- the standards of proof might be higher, but it’s not, and in the event it’s moved to debates my argument will be on the “No, gold diggers shouldn’t get their ass whipped” side, but I doubt that will be necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Sue\_Duhnym](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@Sue\_Duhnym](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sue_Duhnym)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/214 "2010-07-15T02:03:12Z")
She may have been chasing him as a “gold-digger” but it’s JUST AS LIKELY that he wanted her and used all the resources at his disposal to chase her. “Hey baby, I’ve got a record label and am a proven director. Want to blow me for a record contract?” It works both ways Sampiro. Folks, it’s official: Hell has frozen over. I support Dio and want Sampiro to just. stop. posting. Everything is all topsy-turvy! Up is down, left is right, right is wrong! Run for the hills! ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/215 "2010-07-15T02:09:37Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > I agree with you. Of course it’s possible that she’s a gold digger, of course! To me bringing it up in this situation reeks of talking about “but she’s a prostitute!” if a hooker gets raped and/or murdered. To me this would seem more that it’s closer to _your_ mind than to mine. Frankly I don’t have a problem with gold diggers so long as everybody knows what’s up- I’ve no desire for a relationship at the moment but wouldn’t the least bit mind a concubine if I had the money for one and I don’t even look upon her disrespectfully for it; being a courtesan is an ancient and honorable profession imho. She gets money, he gets blown before jacuzzi or else she gets the hose again or whatever they’ve worked out and everybody’s happy, EXCEPT that unbenknownst to her (and I can’t think why it is unknown to her cause it’s absolutely no secret) he’s a misogynystic abusive psycho. If there’s a moral here I suppose it’s “If you’re going after a married rich nutcase for his money then you might want to do more homework” but that’s different from “your fault if he abuses you”. It doesn’t stand to reason that she deserves abuse because she wanted to be a rich man’s concubine. To me there’s no connection between saying she’s a gold digger and she deserves abuse. In the comment about a hooker getting raped or murdered it’s ridiculous to say that she deserves to be raped or murdered, but I think it’s also ridiculous not to mention she’s a hooker when talking about the crime. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/216 "2010-07-15T02:09:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Huh? What are you talking about? What does being married have to do with it? > > She says on the tapes that she doesn’t want money, by the way, and she’s not the one who leaked them. Accusations of extortion lack evidence at this point, and frankly, I think they’re ridiculous. It sounds to me like she just wanted him to leave her alone and quit threatening to kill her. DV victims aren’t typically into trying to further provoke and enrage their abusers. Married in terms of giving her greater leverage in a divorce settlement. Re “extortion” opinions can vary, and you are correct that it’s simply allegations at this point, but if I was in her position I sure as hell would want a golden parachute for putting up with his BS. I have every confidence that she initially used the tapes to try and force a force a financial settlement with him, and I don’t really blame her for doing this given his abusiveness. The problem is that.. well.. he’s nuts, and would not pay her to STFU so he called her bluff, which wasn’t a bluff and here we are. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/217 "2010-07-15T02:14:13Z")
> [@Sue\_Duhnym](#): > > Folks, it’s official: Hell has frozen over. I support Dio and want Sampiro to just. stop. posting. Everything is all topsy-turvy! Up is down, left is right, right is wrong! Run for the hills! Just know that the fact Dio and I are fighting doesn’t mean we don’t both love you. (But I love you more than he does.) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/218 "2010-07-15T02:24:30Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I think you guys are arguing at cross purposes. It’s entirely possible for her to be a victim of DV, AND a woman with a huge attraction to wealthy and powerful men who is very interested in how being with them can advance her own goals and interests. These aren’t mutually exclusive sets. My question remains so what? Why is whatever attracted her to him relevant to the conversation? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/219 "2010-07-15T02:25:11Z")
On a different topic, any idea if her 13 year old son lives with her or with his father? Hellacious thing for him to be raised near if he’s with her, so I’m hoping he’s with Dalton or that if he isn’t then Dalton is trying to get him asap. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490/220 "2010-07-15T02:26:56Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Uh… what’s the relevance to anyone here whether Mel Gibson brought her flowers or tried to disembowel her on national TV? Approximately none. It’s a Pointless Recreational Outrage Suitable Escapism (PROSE) thread pure and simple. If it were a debate- “should a gold digger get her ass whipped?”- the standards of proof might be higher, but it’s not, and in the event it’s moved to debates my argument will be on the “No, gold diggers shouldn’t get their ass whipped” side, but I doubt that will be necessary. Seriously, this whole “poisons the well” insistence that some in this thread keep harping on re that there should be no consideration of the fact that she was grown woman who made potentially foolish or self interested choices because it diminishes his abuse and her victimization, is getting kind of silly. This isn’t a freaking court case, this is just a chat thread about a noted celebrity douchebag and his crazy behavior toward his ex-girlfriend/mother of his child. Save the “poisons the well” concerns for therapy sessions where you need or want to have rigid control over the contextual definitions being used. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson-dials-it-up-to-11-with-new-telephone-recording/546490.md?page=12)