# Mel Gibson **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 31, 2006, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636 "2006-07-31T00:48:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/21 "2006-07-31T14:21:31Z")
Passion plays historically were often overtly anti-Semitic and sometimes led to pogroms in Jewish Ghettos. TPOTC preserved some echoes of that old anti-Semitism (which for centuries was preached from the pulpit) so it’s understandable why the ADL would get its back up some. Unfortunately, some of that anti-Semitism comes directly from the anti-Jewish polemic in the New Testament itself. The mere allegation that the Jews had – or even \*could[/i have had – anything to do with the crucifixion is an unfortunate bit of ancient propaganda which has had dire consequences for 2000 years. ---
**Author:** ![ddgryphon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/22 "2006-07-31T14:38:55Z")
Just my 2 sheckles worth. Pretty much the whole point of Christianity is that Christ died that man would be free from sin. So, in essence, by being responsible for Christ’s death, the Jewish people are the instrument through which Jesus was able to rescue mankind from sin and guilt. So, explain to me how that’s a bad thing? I am merely an instrument of divine works. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/23 "2006-07-31T14:58:51Z")
[QUOTE=ddgryphon] Just my 2 sheckles worth. Pretty much the whole point of Christianity is that Christ died that man would be free from sin. So, in essence, by being responsible for Christ’s death, the Jewish people are the instrument through which Jesus was able to rescue mankind from sin and guilt. So, explain to me how that’s a bad thing? I am merely an instrument of divine works. [/QUOTE] 1. The allegation that the Jewish people were responsible at _all_ for the crucifixion is patently false. They were not and _could_ not have been. 2. No matter how that ancient smear is sanitized now, _historically_ it has been the root of the “Christ killer” meme which has been responsible for a great deal of anti-Semitic violence. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/24 "2006-07-31T15:04:45Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] The ADL’s opinions on just about anything C’tian or conservative do not hold much water for me. [/QUOTE] It doesn’t seem to me that the Anti-Defamation League is very interested in having opinions about Christianity or conservatism. Usually, when they express an opinion, it’s about **anti-Semitism**. Do you discount what they have to say on that subject? Or do you believe that merely by criticizing a statement by someone claiming adherence to Christianity or conservatism that they are crossing the line into subjects in which their expertise is suspect? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/25 "2006-07-31T15:23:26Z")
[QUOTE=Chez Guevara] When inebriated (OK, totally drunk) some of us are happy and others are mean. In the latter case, alcohol brings out the worst in people. The worst is clearly somewhere inside them already. [/QUOTE] For obvious reasons (people are a lot more likely to try and hide their bad traits than their good ones), the latter is more noticeable. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/26 "2006-07-31T16:23:40Z")
[QUOTE=ddgryphon] Just my 2 sheckles worth. Pretty much the whole point of Christianity is that Christ died that\*\* man would be free from sin.\*\* [bold added] So, in essence, by being responsible for Christ’s death, the Jewish people are the instrument through which Jesus was able to rescue mankind from sin and guilt. So, explain to me how that’s a bad thing? I am merely an instrument of divine works. [/QUOTE] More exactly wouldn’t that be **man would be freed from the consequences of sin**? ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/27 "2006-07-31T17:38:10Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] More exactly wouldn’t that be **man would be freed from the consequences of sin**? [/QUOTE] More like, man wouild be freed from sin. As in, despite sin, we are redeemed through his death. The consequences for your _actions_, still your responsiblilty. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/28 "2006-07-31T19:26:41Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] 1. The allegation that the Jewish people were responsible at _all_ for the crucifixion is patently false. They were not and _could_ not have been. [/QUOTE] I assume that this is not to say that SOME Jewish people, all dead at least 1900 years, were, correct? Given that, at least as far as the Biblical account goes, the Temple police arrested Jesus and passed him along up the chain of command to the guy who could order the punishment they wanted, that noted humanitarian :rolleyes: Pontius Pilate, the first person in the process who was NOT Jewish. Am I correct to assume you mean that it should, though it rarely does, go without saying that no group of people can or should bear collective guilt for the actions of some of their ancestors? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/29 "2006-07-31T19:37:18Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] I assume that this is not to say that SOME Jewish people, all dead at least 1900 years, were, correct? Given that, at least as far as the Biblical account goes, the Temple police arrested Jesus and passed him along up the chain of command to the guy who could order the punishment they wanted, that noted humanitarian :rolleyes: Pontius Pilate, the first person in the process who was NOT Jewish. Am I correct to assume you mean that it should, though it rarely does, go without saying that no group of people can or should bear collective guilt for the actions of some of their ancestors? [/QUOTE] I’m saying that the story in the Gospels that Jesus was arrested, tried or turned over to Pilate for execution cannot be historically true. It’s pure propaganda, not history. Jesus was executed by the Romans, period. The Jewish authorities had nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/30 "2006-07-31T19:42:29Z")
> [@](#): > > … that Jesus was arrested, tried or turned over to Pilate for execution… That he was tried, etc. by the _Jewish authorities_, that is… ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/31 "2006-07-31T20:00:21Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I’m saying that the story in the Gospels that Jesus was arrested, tried or turned over to Pilate for execution cannot be historically true. [/QUOTE] Why not? There was a local legal system in Palestine to handle jaywalking, littering, and heresy violations, wasn’t there? I assume adulterers didn’t need to go through the Roman legal system before they were stoned or Pilate would’ve changed the punishment to something more painful and strung out, like stringing them out. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/32 "2006-07-31T20:16:24Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] Why not? There was a local legal system in Palestine to handle jaywalking, littering, and heresy violations, wasn’t there? I assume adulterers didn’t need to go through the Roman legal system before they were stoned or Pilate would’ve changed the punishment to something more painful and strung out, like stringing them out. [/QUOTE] The specific sentence of crucifixion was an exclusively Roman punishment which was forbidden under Jewish law. The Romans only used it for crimes against the state, such as sedition or treason. They never used it for Jewish religious crimes and would not have cared about any Jewish “heretic” and (contrary to the portrait in the Gospels) Pilate did not do the bidding of the Sanhedrin. If Jesus was crucified, it could have only been because he pissed off the Romans, not the Sanhedrin. Moreover, the story of the trial and conviction of Jesus as depicted in the synoptic Gospels (created first by Mark, then copied by Matthew and Luke) is filled with procedural and factual errors, including the mistaken notion that claiming to be the Messiah was “blasphemy.” Mark’s trial is widely believed by NT scholars to be a fiction designed to shift blame away from the Romans and onto Jewish authorities. In reality, Jesus is not depicted as having said or done anything illegal under Jewish law, execpt, perhaps, his disruption in the Temple courtyard. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/33 "2006-07-31T20:41:29Z")
I’ll take you at your word about crucifiction being illegal under Jewish law, mostly because I don’t have time to research it, but they lost me believing the rest of the story when the evangelists depicted Pilate as some put-upon civil servant who wouldn’t harm a fly and who they dragged out of bed in the middle of the night so they could boss him around. Doesn’t sound much like the real Pontius Pilate; maybe he sent his double or food taster out to talk to them. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/34 "2006-07-31T20:48:20Z")
A lot of people who supported him gave him the benefit of the doubt on the perceived anti-Semitism of PotC and his own father’s opinions. His remarks have at least seriously damaged that doubt, if not destroyed it entirely. In any case that support is justly reduced or removed. Such remarks should be condemned, no matter who says them. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/35 "2006-07-31T20:58:04Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I’m saying that the story in the Gospels that Jesus was arrested, tried or turned over to Pilate for execution cannot be historically true. It’s pure propaganda, not history. Jesus was executed by the Romans, period. The Jewish authorities had nothing to do with it. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The specific sentence of crucifixion was an exclusively Roman punishment which was forbidden under Jewish law. The Romans only used it for crimes against the state, such as sedition or treason. They never used it for Jewish religious crimes and would not have cared about any Jewish “heretic” and (contrary to the portrait in the Gospels) Pilate did not do the bidding of the Sanhedrin. If Jesus was crucified, it could have only been because he pissed off the Romans, not the Sanhedrin. Moreover, the story of the trial and conviction of Jesus as depicted in the synoptic Gospels (created first by Mark, then copied by Matthew and Luke) is filled with procedural and factual errors, including the mistaken notion that claiming to be the Messiah was “blasphemy.” Mark’s trial is widely believed by NT scholars to be a fiction designed to shift blame away from the Romans and onto Jewish authorities. In reality, Jesus is not depicted as having said or done anything illegal under Jewish law, execpt, perhaps, his disruption in the Temple courtyard. [/QUOTE] Sortof, but not completely accurate. The Jewish authorities _did_ have something to do with it, in that it was Caiaphas (the Jewish High Priest) who had Jesus arrested and sent before Pilate in the first place. He did so, as you correctly note, not for religious crimes, but for political reasons (see below for further explanation). He also recommended execution, however, he had no authority to actually carry out such a sentence, nor would execution by crucifixion have been an acceptable method according to Jewish law. As you state, that was strictly a Roman punishment. From **CK Dexter Haven’s** SD Staff Report, [“Who Killed Jesus,”](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mjesuskill.html) > [@](#): > > [Large snip] > > [T]he gospels’ descriptions of the actions of the high priest and his council in arresting Jesus agree with Josephus’ description of how Jerusalem was governed at the time. The evidence is consistent with the interpretation that Caiaphas had Jesus arrested because he was a troublemaker. Jesus alarmed some people because of his attack on the Temple and his remark about its pending destruction. Caiaphas was concerned that Jesus would incite a riot, and so sent armed guards to arrest him, gave him a hearing, and then recommended execution to Pilate, who promptly complied. This is the way the synoptic gospels describe the event, and this is the way things happened in other cases as several stories by Josephus show. > > Caiaphas’ actions were political. He had the official and moral responsibility to preserve the peace and to prevent riots and bloodshed. If he even thought about it as a choice, he was obliged to choose between having Jesus killed or letting Jesus live and preach, inciting riot and leading to massacre of the population and of Jesus’ followers by Roman troops. So he decided that the best political move was to preserve the peace by arresting Jesus and having him executed. > > But Caiaphas could not order the execution himself. The high priest could recommend executions but could not order them. Only the prefect could do that. > > Crucifixion was not a punishment permitted under Jewish law. Jewish law permitted capital punishment, but the legal requirements were extremely stringent, so that the death penalty was very rarely (if ever) enforced during Second Temple times. Jewish Law allowed only four kinds of execution, and none involved anything as lingering and tortuous as crucifixion. On the other hand, the Romans executed people for minor infractions, and crucifixion as a method of execution was a popular Roman entertainment. > > So Caiaphas followed the rules of the Roman governmental system, and the requirements of his position, and sent Jesus to Pilate. > [@dropzone](#): > > I’ll take you at your word about crucifiction being illegal under Jewish law, mostly because I don’t have time to research it, but they lost me believing the rest of the story when the evangelists depicted Pilate as some put-upon civil servant who wouldn’t harm a fly and who they dragged out of bed in the middle of the night so they could boss him around. Doesn’t sound much like the real Pontius Pilate; maybe he sent his double or food taster out to talk to them. Indeed, it was a gross distortion of the true character of Pilate. More from the above-quoted link. . . > [@](#): > > Which brings us to Pontius Pilate. The New Testament describes him as prefect over Judea at the time of Jesus’ death, and we have outside corroboration for this from several sources. As noted, Tacitus mentions Pilate but only incidentally, saying nothing about his character. However, the major Jewish historians of the period, Josephus and Philo, discuss Pilate at length. Philo, who was Pilate’s contemporary, wrote an appeal to the emperor Caligula that included a description of Pilate. Philo wrote of “the briberies, the insults, the robberies, the outrages and wanton injustices, the executions without trial constantly repeated, the endless and supremely grievous cruelty” of Pilate’s rule. Pilate was eventually dismissed from office because of complaints of his widespread and injudicious executions. We’ll return to Pilate’s role later. > > [Later. . .] > > The gospels’ portrayal of Pilate as wishy-washy, reluctant, and weak-willed is incompatible with the descriptions of him in Josephus and Philo. He had served as prefect of Judea for over a decade; he would not have survived long in that political climate if he were as indecisive as the gospels depict. We can probably best explain this as Christian propaganda a few decades later–an excuse for Pilate’s action to reduce tension between the growing Christian movement and Roman authority. > > Weddig Fricke says, “Despite all the efforts to make the Jews look primarily responsible and to cast the Roman procurator in the role of an unwitting instrument . . . the biblical accounts make it quite clear that Pontius Pilate pronounced the death sentence . . . which was carried out by his legionnaires.” > > The most likely story is that Jesus was sent to Pilate by Caiaphas, flogged and briefly interrogated. Then, when Jesus’ answers were not completely satisfactory, Pilate had him crucified without a second thought. > > SO, WHO KILLED JESUS, ALREADY? > > In summary, Jesus was killed because the Roman empire mercilessly put down any possible source of rebellion or riot. The empire’s agents included the Roman prefect Pilate who ordered the execution, and the Jewish high priest Caiaphus and his council who initiated the process. Assigning responsibility to an entire group of people, whether the Jews or the Romans, is stereotyping, oversimplifying, and false. Hope that explanation was helpful. Oh, and Mel Gibson sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/36 "2006-07-31T21:00:44Z")
Aaand, just to drag the thread back on track, here is some deliciously bitchy coverage from [Defamer.com](http://Defamer.com): [Defamer does Mel](http://www.defamer.com/hollywood/mel-gibson/) . . . which does not include my favorite made-up retort: “That’s “Officer Sugar Tits” to you.” ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/37 "2006-07-31T21:00:56Z")
[QUOTE=rowrrbazzle] A lot of people who supported him gave him the benefit of the doubt on the perceived anti-Semitism of PotC and his own father’s opinions. His remarks have at least seriously damaged that doubt, if not destroyed it entirely. In any case that support is justly reduced or removed. Such remarks should be condemned, no matter who says them. [/QUOTE] There may indeed be a little seed of anti-semitism planted in him by his father. OTOH, I wonder which really came first? The chicken or the egg? I mean, the guy made PotC, and he’s been catching all kinds of shit for it ever since, especially, but not exclusively, from Jews. It’s not surprising under the influence of a lot of alcohol, he’d lash out at what his drunken mind perceives as his persecutors. “Damn Jews, why they gotta ruin everything!” ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/38 "2006-07-31T21:02:09Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The specific sentence of crucifixion was an exclusively Roman punishment which was forbidden under Jewish law. The Romans only used it for crimes against the state, such as sedition or treason. They never used it for Jewish religious crimes and would not have cared about any Jewish “heretic” and (contrary to the portrait in the Gospels) Pilate did not do the bidding of the Sanhedrin. If Jesus was crucified, it could have only been because he pissed off the Romans, not the Sanhedrin. Moreover, the story of the trial and conviction of Jesus as depicted in the synoptic Gospels (created first by Mark, then copied by Matthew and Luke) is filled with procedural and factual errors, including the mistaken notion that claiming to be the Messiah was “blasphemy.” Mark’s trial is widely believed by NT scholars to be a fiction designed to shift blame away from the Romans and onto Jewish authorities. In reality, Jesus is not depicted as having said or done anything illegal under Jewish law, execpt, perhaps, his disruption in the Temple courtyard. [/QUOTE] [From the Straight Dope Science Advisory Board.](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mjesuskill.html) I happen to agree with most of what you say, **Diogenes** , but while Caiaphas couldn’t actually execute Jesus, he _could_ recommend it to Pilate. I believe he did just that. I really don’t blame Caiaphas, though. From the looks of things, he really didn’t have much of a choice, and yes, the NT account of Pilate trying to spare Jesus’s life strikes me as pretty bogus too. Caiaphus was in a difficult situation, and he didn’t have a much of a choice in recommending Jesus’s death, but he still recommended it. I also believe that sooner or later _someone_ would have to have taken care of Jesus, be it Caiaphas or the Romans. Jesus seemed to have come to Bethlehem with every intention of stirring up trouble if not actually deliberately goading the powers that be into executing him, and . If it had been the Romans, then a lot of innocent lives would have been lost. Caiaphas really couldn’t have done anything else without bringing the wrath of Rome down upon Jerusalem. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/39 "2006-07-31T21:03:19Z")
Drat. You win this round, **Shayna**! (Shakes fist) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636/40 "2006-07-31T21:10:05Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Sortof, but not completely accurate. The Jewish authorities _did_ have something to do with it, in that it was Caiaphas (the Jewish High Priest) who had Jesus arrested and sent before Pilate in the first place. He did so, as you correctly note, not for religious crimes, but for political reasons (see below for further explanation). He also recommended execution, however, he had no authority to actually carry out such a sentence, nor would execution by crucifixion have been an acceptable method according to Jewish law. As you state, that was strictly a Roman punishment. From **CK Dexter Haven’s** SD Staff Report, [“Who Killed Jesus,”](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mjesuskill.html) Indeed, it was a gross distortion of the true character of Pilate. More from the above-quoted link. . . Hope that explanation was helpful. Oh, and Mel Gibson sucks. [/QUOTE] The only part of Dex’s piece I might disagree with is that there is any reason to believe that Caiaphas would _necessarily_ have been involved in the arrest. Josephus says that the Romans kept an extra contigent of their own guards at the Temple during passover, so the Temple police would not have been necessary. The Jewish high priests during this period were generally handpicked by the Romans ane were seen as collaborators, so it’s not out of the question that they could have facillitated the arrest, but the _trial_ is fiction, as is the Jewish mob screaming for blood. At worst, a few high placed Jewish authorities did the bidding of the Romans (rather than the other way around), but Jesus was not executed by or at the behest of “the Jews” or any Jewish authority or for any breech of Jewish law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mel-gibson/366636.md?page=3)