# Melting the Icecaps **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 18, 2011, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796 "2011-02-18T07:33:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DB\_Cooper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DB\_Cooper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DB_Cooper)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/1 "2011-02-18T07:33:32Z")
In [If I were an evil genius, how could I go about melting the ice caps? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2982/if-i-were-an-evil-genius-how-could-i-go-about-melting-the-ice-caps) Cecil says the only sure way to melt the icecaps is to burn fossil fuel etc There are two drawbacks to this theory. 1. It will take an awful long time at any conceivable rate of burning to melt the poles - and that is using the quaint IPCC worst case projections. 2. (And more importantly) there ain’t enough fossil fuels left to do it. Even taking into account all know reserves of everything burnable. And then adding some humungeos fudge factor the earth will be well out of fossil fuels long before it gets warm enough to melt the poles. For those of a scientific bent, check out known fossil fuel reserves and then the atmospheric concentration of CO2 etc required to get a specific global warming suitable for pole melting. There simply are not enough carbon atoms to do the job. ---
**Author:** ![Name\_of\_the\_User](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/838e76/32.png) [@Name\_of\_the\_User](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Name_of_the_User)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/2 "2011-02-18T10:51:15Z")
_All_ the ice wouldn’t have to be melted to “drown the Teeming Millions?” How much would and how much energy would that take? ---
**Author:** ![haru2020](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@haru2020](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/haru2020)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/3 "2011-02-18T11:39:37Z")
Burning Coal, pointing mirrors, nuclear devices… hah!!! Never ask a kid when you have a job for a supervillain. It’s easy. Open your secret crater base, lauch your fleet of self-constructed or stolen space ships and fetch a medium-sized asteroid of about 150 km in diameter. The asteroid belt would do, but Oort cloud objects are better due to their higher initial speed. To avoid counter measures, paint it black, cool the surface and wrap it into some stealth material. Targeting the pole is be a breeze as it doesn’t move much, compared to a place on the equator. You can leave that up to your evil sidekick. Just remember, shortly before the impact use some nuclear device to blast your rock into much smaller fragments. Otherwise the asteroid would not only drown hundreds of millions of people but it would kill the whole species. And we don’t want to be too evil… ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/4 "2011-02-18T14:56:21Z")
Melting all the icecaps on Earth would raise sea level, iirc, about 100 meters, which would inundate coastal areas but wouldn’t come close to a “Waterworld” scenerio. And I thought Cecil was being a bit snarky about global warming. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/5 "2011-02-18T16:01:17Z")
Odd, I thought Cecil was using satire to point out “we don’t need an evil genius to melt our polar ice caps because we’re doing it ourselves.” ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/6 "2011-02-18T16:04:50Z")
You say \*\*Cecil \*\*was snarky in his column like it’s a \*bad \*thing. ---
**Author:** ![Kenyth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kenyth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenyth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/7 "2011-02-18T16:38:23Z")
Really, snarky is exactly why I read this column. I thought the satire was brilliant. I got my laugh for the day. ---
**Author:** ![tomL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b782af/32.png) [@tomL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomL)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/8 "2011-02-18T16:58:33Z")
I was disappointed by the satire. It looked rather cheap after he’d gone to pains to make this point just two paragraphs prior: “Fossil fuels, then? Good luck — those 11.3 yottajoules are more than a thousand times the energy contained in the entire world’s proved oil reserves (and that’s assuming we can convert the energy to heat with 100 percent efficiency). Throw in all the globe’s coal and natural gas and, once again, we still don’t get to even one percent of what’s required.” So we burn every last molecule and get 1% of the heat required, but the insulating effect of the resulting gases immediately provides the other 99%? Not to mention the reliance on positive feedback in that effect, having just used the negative feedback of “sun-blocking cloud cover” as a reason mirrors wouldn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/9 "2011-02-18T17:06:33Z")
So if I can’t use nukes to melt the ice caps directly, could I use them to release enough CO2 to do it? Say, by setting off nukes in major oil fields and coal deposits, or by starting massive firestorms in the rainforests? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/10 "2011-02-18T17:34:09Z")
What I got out of it was that he was being ironic (i.e. it won’t take an evil genius since we are doing it ourselves already), but it still doesn’t seem to fit the time scale. I mean, even at our present rate of use (or even if it continues to climb due to the expanding FF use in countries like China and India), I’m not seeing the 20 year time frame…or even 100 years. Not sure how long it will take for we humans to completely melt all the ice (or even a high percentage of it), but my impression is that we are talking about hundreds of years. Of course, once we get to the tipping point where methane starts out-gassing from the tundra and oceans…well, it’s likely to cost us more than _raises pinky_ One MIIIILLLLLIIIIONNNN DOLARS!!! -XT ---
**Author:** ![Dwindlehop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@Dwindlehop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dwindlehop)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/11 "2011-02-18T18:21:57Z")
Has Cecil previously answered the question of what it would take for global warming to not melt the icecaps? That is, if the U.S. bans gasoline consumption tomorrow (and we somehow manage to keep our economic output up) does that give the climate models enough of a bump to keep the world in the black, so to speak? ---
**Author:** ![wither](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@wither](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wither)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/12 "2011-02-18T19:39:32Z")
Create an organism (lichen, fungus, mold, bacteria) that can feed off of windblown minerals and turns dark or absorbs even slightly more energy from the sun rather than allow it to reflect back to the atmosphere and space. Even a single percent absorptivity from the culture would mean enormous changes to the energy balance. The changes to ice fields from vanishingly small deposits of dust from the Sahara and volcanic eruptions is relatively easily measurable, and a full percent would be a cataclysmic change. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/13 "2011-02-18T19:49:39Z")
> [@Dwindlehop](#): > > Has Cecil previously answered the question of what it would take for global warming to not melt the icecaps? That is, if the U.S. bans gasoline consumption tomorrow (and we somehow manage to keep our economic output up) does that give the climate models enough of a bump to keep the world in the black, so to speak? I’m not sure we have the means at this time to stop the melting. However, I _do_ think that with a lot of effort we have the means to _slow down_ the process…which might give us time to stop the process. This is why it is important that we do everything we can. ---
**Author:** ![penumbrage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c77e96/32.png) [@penumbrage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penumbrage)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/14 "2011-02-18T20:02:38Z")
Ranchoth The Chicxulub impact asteroid’s estimated energy was about 130 million megatons, it set most of the planet on fire with infalling incandescent ejecta and, hitting a continental shelf, it boiled hundreds of cubic miles of seawater into water vapor. If all that failed to melt the icecaps, I’m afraid you’ll just have to keep looking. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/15 "2011-02-18T20:23:06Z")
> [@penumbrage](#): > > Ranchoth > The Chicxulub impact asteroid’s estimated energy was about 130 million megatons, it set most of the planet on fire with infalling incandescent ejecta and, hitting a continental shelf, it boiled hundreds of cubic miles of seawater into water vapor. > If all that failed to melt the icecaps, I’m afraid you’ll just have to keep looking. If something of that nature happened again, I don’t think the melting polar icecaps would be the subject of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/16 "2011-02-18T20:37:07Z")
I thought the segue to AGW was brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![jimmythefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@jimmythefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmythefly)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/17 "2011-02-18T21:21:45Z")
What about volcanic energy? Contact evil genius construction company, build deep-bore robots, release liquid hot magma into polar ice fields? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/18 "2011-02-18T21:23:45Z")
If you could unleash something like the Siberian Traps you could probably do it…but even that would take some time from what I understand. Plus, there is the part that it would probably kill everyone, including the evil genius (who wouldn’t be so smart as a DEAD evil genius)… -XT ---
**Author:** ![fredricwilliams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aeb1de/32.png) [@fredricwilliams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fredricwilliams)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/19 "2011-02-19T00:36:46Z")
I thought the segue to “climate change” (global warming is passe now that winters have gotten more press) was disappointing and irrational. If we can’t do it deliberately with everything working in our favor, Cecil thinks we can do it accidentally? More important, sea level has risen about 120 meters since the past glacial maximum (so called “Ice Age” – but we are currently in an interglacial period of an Ice Age going back a couple of million years). I haven’t checked the newspapers, but I think hundreds of millions of people did not die from this increase in temperature leading to sea levels rising about 6 millimeters per year. Of course, it is true that EVERYONE living before 1850 has died – I doubt that climate change enthusiasts could argue that the sea level rise caused the deaths. Even my 10-month-old son could outcrawl a 6 mm. per year rise in the sea level. Besides, the sea level rise is currently much less – perhaps 3 mm./yr – and the IPCC guesses it will continue at about this rate for the current century (it has been much less over the past millennia). At its worst period, about 14,000 years ago, sea level rose year after year at a rate of 4 cm (40 mm) per year – about an inch and a half. Good reason to sell your beachfront property, but hardly likely to inundate hundreds of millions of innocent humans. Even ants have sense enough to move. In other words, politicians and other would-be mega-villains should look for another scheme to injure humanity. Climate change isn’t going to cut it. ---
**Author:** ![Hussman32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8baadc/32.png) [@Hussman32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hussman32)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796/20 "2011-02-19T00:39:49Z")
I’m starting to wonder if Cecil’s doppleganger has been writing some columns. The tone of the SD global warming position has changed from the remarkably pragmatic opinion that we probably don’t have much of an impact on temperature, but we need to find a way to use energy to find other energy sources before they run out, > **[Is global warming for real?](https://www.straightdope.com/21343770/is-global-warming-for-real)** to several veiled references that humans are causing global warming. > **[Will special paint keep my house cooler in summer?](https://www.straightdope.com/21344030/will-special-paint-keep-my-house-cooler-in-summer)** > **[Unshiny day: Is there more sulfur in the air than in preindustrial times? Is...](https://www.straightdope.com/21343493/unshiny-day-is-there-more-sulfur-in-the-air-than-in-preindustrial-times-is-this-making-silver-tarnis)** > **[Are jet contrails the latest threat?](https://www.straightdope.com/21343679/are-jet-contrails-the-latest-threat)** > **[What’s better for the environment, electric hand dryers or paper towels?](https://www.straightdope.com/21343837/what-s-better-for-the-environment-electric-hand-dryers-or-paper-towels)** > **[What’s better for the environment, a scooter or a car?](https://www.straightdope.com/21343952/what-s-better-for-the-environment-a-scooter-or-a-car)** Now, I’m all for conservation and environmental friendliness, but Cecil isn’t funded to have the human-induced global warming opinion, and he should retain the skepticism that I’ve come to love. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/melting-the-icecaps/571796.md?page=2)