# Memo to MS Word: The passive voice is not the root of all evil. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 30, 2009, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memo-to-ms-word-the-passive-voice-is-not-the-root-of-all-evil/498125 "2009-05-30T05:51:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memo-to-ms-word-the-passive-voice-is-not-the-root-of-all-evil/498125/41 "2009-06-01T06:27:36Z")
As I learned in college, the role of thems of us what speak grammatical English is to stomp on thems what don’t. 😃 IRL, a Merkin, no matter how backwoods, would understand the former. I assume a rural Spaniard would understand the Spanish equivalent. Following a sincere, if far from incomplete effort, folks from all over the word can figure out the meaning of what other folks say, no matter their original language. Yeah, it may not be instant, but close enough. We have been trying to figure out what our trading partners mean for millenia, and we’ve grown pretty good at it. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memo-to-ms-word-the-passive-voice-is-not-the-root-of-all-evil/498125/42 "2009-06-01T11:32:29Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > No, “is” is active either way. Depends on your definition of “is”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memo-to-ms-word-the-passive-voice-is-not-the-root-of-all-evil/498125/43 "2009-06-05T03:39:54Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Grammar as well; not in that you modify those forms you use to be simpler than when other speakers use them, but in that you’re more likely to choose a simpler form when two are available. People from other English-speaking countries are more likely to pick “wordier” forms, specially in formal situations. Where someone from Scotland may say “excuse me, would you please take a look at this?” an American may say “check this out please.” The Scotts one is more formal. The second is informal, and is kinda rude. So I don’t think they’re comparative really. I get what you’re saying though. Take the phrasing for that last sentence "I get what you’re saying though. " A “wordier” way to phrase it might be “I understand the point you intended to express however”. An American wouldn’t revise the wordier one out of grammar. We’d revise it for composition. The wordier version is less concise. Americans value informality a lot more then some cultures. We also value directness, and message over delivery. “wordier” is pompous, and potentially less concise. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memo-to-ms-word-the-passive-voice-is-not-the-root-of-all-evil/498125/44 "2009-06-05T06:28:18Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I hate the passive voice and try to avoid it at all costs. But it’s not grammatically _wrong_. It’s just sometimes awkward. > > Grammar checks should stick to catching actual errors, like “Bob gave presents to Sally and I.” That one really grinds my gears. You have an army of grade school teachers to contend with if that grinds your gears. I didn’t encounter an English teacher who could actually write that sentence correctly until college. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memo-to-ms-word-the-passive-voice-is-not-the-root-of-all-evil/498125/45 "2009-06-05T13:06:27Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Yep. We also don’t assume that the the verb “to have” is both passive and negative by its merest presence. “I have a lollipop,” by some grammar software I threw away, is passive. I don’t know nearly enough grammar for a formal discussion, but I can see that it is a more direct or appropriate construction than, “The lollipop is mine.” The passive voice form would be, “A lollipop is had by me.” Of course, that’s exactly the sort of passive construction that should be avoided. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memo-to-ms-word-the-passive-voice-is-not-the-root-of-all-evil/498125/46 "2009-06-05T14:52:42Z")
> [@tr0psn4j](#): > > I’m not saying they’d actually take points off per green line. It just gives me the feeling that the professor sees it before reading and thinks “look at all these errors Word has picked up, he was obviously not trying too hard.” Why would you think that the professor would have the green lines turned on? You seem to be underestimating their intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memo-to-ms-word-the-passive-voice-is-not-the-root-of-all-evil/498125/47 "2009-06-05T15:01:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The idea that the passive voice is a bad thing is ridiculous. Why write off a third of the possible permutations of the language? > > Is it restricted to the US? Teachers often required us to use passive voice (particularly past passive when describing experiments) in school. If memory serves correct, the whole idea that the passive voice is “weak writing” comes from the personal preferences of [Strunk](http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003417.html), White, and Orwell. Of course it is silly. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memo-to-ms-word-the-passive-voice-is-not-the-root-of-all-evil/498125/48 "2009-06-05T16:13:47Z")
> [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](#): > > If memory serves correct, the whole idea that the passive voice is “weak writing” comes from the personal preferences of [Strunk](http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003417.html), White, and Orwell. Of course it is silly. In many cases, passive voice is longer and harder to comprehend than active voice (I don’t have cites, unfortunately, as it’s been years since psych-of-reading in grad school). But in general it’s good practice to try to avoid using passive voice if active can (appropriately) be used instead. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memo-to-ms-word-the-passive-voice-is-not-the-root-of-all-evil/498125/49 "2009-06-05T19:05:03Z")
> [@Hunter\_Hawk](#): > > In many cases, passive voice is longer and harder to comprehend than active voice (I don’t have cites, unfortunately, as it’s been years since psych-of-reading in grad school). Of course. Sometimes it is better to use the passive voice, and sometimes it is better to use the active voice. > [@](#): > > But in general it’s good practice to try to avoid using passive voice if active can (appropriately) be used instead. Why? Why can’t we just use the better construction for the situation and leave it at that? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memo-to-ms-word-the-passive-voice-is-not-the-root-of-all-evil/498125/50 "2009-06-05T21:21:52Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > I think the passive aggressive voice would be: Juanita being delighted by Michelle, but no one ever thinks to delight me because they only think about themselves.☹ ☹ ☹ > > The aggressive voice would be: Holy fucking flying cocks is Juanita ever being delighted THE FUCK OUT by Michelle. I want to see an auto-correct feature with this! ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memo-to-ms-word-the-passive-voice-is-not-the-root-of-all-evil/498125/51 "2009-06-05T21:55:52Z")
Want to die and go to Hell? Read a three-page business memo written entirely in passive voice. I see waaaay too many of those. Way too many of those are seen by people. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memo-to-ms-word-the-passive-voice-is-not-the-root-of-all-evil/498125/52 "2009-06-06T06:07:09Z")
> [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](#): > > Why? Why can’t we just use the better construction for the situation and leave it at that? Well yeah, that’s what it boils down to. But lots of people tend to think that passive voice is appropriate when active would be better, so you gotta keep hounding 'em about the value of S-V-O order. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memo-to-ms-word-the-passive-voice-is-not-the-root-of-all-evil/498125/53 "2009-06-06T06:41:51Z")
But you have to ignore us Upper Midwesterners. I’m not clear what the Passive Voice is, but I’m plenty clear that the Passive Aggressive Voice is close to, “A lotta guys woulda moved their boats to the other side of the lake before the guys from The State showed up.” ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memo-to-ms-word-the-passive-voice-is-not-the-root-of-all-evil/498125/54 "2009-06-06T17:24:39Z")
FYI, Here is a list of Language Log articles about the passive voice: [http://ling.ed.ac.uk/grammar/passives.html](http://ling.ed.ac.uk/grammar/passives.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memo-to-ms-word-the-passive-voice-is-not-the-root-of-all-evil/498125.md?page=2)