# Memogate: are CBS completely stupid **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 14, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414 "2004-09-14T14:09:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/1 "2004-09-14T14:09:16Z")
Turns out their expert witness [wasn’t given the original](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18982-2004Sep13.html). How completely bloody clueless can you get? How long can it be before Rather resigns or is fired? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/2 "2004-09-14T14:10:17Z")
What’s the frequency, Kenneth? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/3 "2004-09-14T14:11:32Z")
Personally I don’t think either will happen. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/4 "2004-09-14T14:14:58Z")
_ **IS** _ CBS stupid. Also, you need a question mark, as you’re posing a question. I don’t usually point out grammar mistakes, but this was a bit too ironic to resist. Subject/verb agreement and punctuation _are_ your friends, **qts**. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/5 "2004-09-14T14:25:06Z")
You might have been whooshed. Sometimes, people use bad grammar as a rhetorical device to amplify the topic of their assertion, particularly when the subject of the topic is pretentious. For example, when people say to me something like, “I’m here, aren’t I?”, I respond instantly, “Yes, and I are too!” ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/6 "2004-09-14T14:30:06Z")
Sorry, while I’ll cop to the lack of the question mark, the use of ‘are’ rather than ‘is’ when referring to groups is perfectly valid in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/7 "2004-09-14T14:42:48Z")
Yes, but we’re speaking English here. Foreign languages are prohibited. You can take your British elsewhere, please. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/8 "2004-09-14T14:46:38Z")
I’m here, ain’t me? At first it seemed to good to be true. But, it is looking more and more like CBS will get a major embarassment out of this fiasco. It’s a shame that so many people don’t have cable. It’s the only reason why the networks continue to get high ratings IMO. People when given a choice would pick the relatively unbiased and fact based cable news channels. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/9 "2004-09-14T15:15:27Z")
Stonewalling on the Alar thing didn’t seem to hurt them. I think most already realize that the geriatric lefties at “60 Minutes” aren’t going to lose market share for going off half-cocked on a nice juicy Republican scandal. They thought they had the equivalent of the Bush DUI thing in 2000, it’s only a few weeks to the election, and they didn’t want to waste time authenticating documents they desperately wanted to be genuine. So now they will keep repeating “CBS stands by its story” until the debates, and step up the search for something else to use against Bush. If they didn’t fire Rather for the stream-of-consciousness raving on Election Night 2000, they won’t fire him for this either. Maybe a low-level staffer or two, if they can keep it from being seen as an admission of guilt. But no more. “60 Minutes” would like Bush to be defeated. This is news? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/10 "2004-09-14T15:45:11Z")
Does anyone seriously doubt that Bush failed to take his flight physical? Would it be so astounding that he was so ordered to do? Would it be a great shock that someone wrote a memo about a pilot who would not take his physical? The Pubbies are so much in denial that they want to focus on the fonts. The content of the memo is beyond dispute (other than some trivialities of dates not lining up precisely), as there has been no documentation that Bush made any effort to maintain his flight status. And it just so happened to occur when new drug testing was added to the physical. So Lt. Strawnose knew that he’d get busted for cocaine use and skips out of his physical, knowing that between the cracks of the bureaucracy and his own political pull he could get away with it. That this caused resentment in the chain of command isn’t terribly surprising. Now that these memos are brought to light by CBS, the right is back into whining about the evil evil liberal media. Yep, that leftist media, home of Hannity, Scarborough, O’Reilly, and Limbaugh. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/11 "2004-09-14T15:59:23Z")
Mentioning the forgery theory has already served its purpose. Now that the possibility that the memo is not authentic has been raised, true believers can assume it’s a lie and ignore the implications of the contents. Further evidence of whether or not the memo was actually forged is not required. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/12 "2004-09-14T16:36:14Z")
I’m here, amn’t I? I hate when the news media runs with a story without taking the time to properly authenticate the source material. Unfortunately, the credibility of all media stories is suspect by varying degrees. A moderate dose of skepticism is needed on the receiving end, and the one hand it’s a shame that we can’t really trust our journalists, but on the other hand it keeps the mind active. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/13 "2004-09-14T17:05:51Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Does anyone seriously doubt that Bush failed to take his flight physical? Would it be so astounding that he was so ordered to do? Would it be a great shock that someone wrote a memo about a pilot who would not take his physical? The Pubbies are so much in denial that they want to focus on the fonts. The content of the memo is beyond dispute (other than some trivialities of dates not lining up precisely), as there has been no documentation that Bush made any effort to maintain his flight status. And it just so happened to occur when new drug testing was added to the physical. So Lt. Strawnose knew that he’d get busted for cocaine use and skips out of his physical, knowing that between the cracks of the bureaucracy and his own political pull he could get away with it. That this caused resentment in the chain of command isn’t terribly surprising. > > Now that these memos are brought to light by CBS, the right is back into whining about the evil evil liberal media. Yep, that leftist media, home of Hannity, Scarborough, O’Reilly, and Limbaugh. Does anyone serious care what Bush did or didn’t do in the NG? Bush would love for this campaign to focus on those years instead of the present day issues. It works best for him that way. On the other hand, you seem to be defending the use of forged documents as long as they fit your preconceived notion of what the events were. That’s pretty sad, actually. I hope you’ll come to the Swifty’s defense if they produce some “documents” from long dead Navy officials saying that Kerry was never in Cambodia. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/14 "2004-09-14T17:12:13Z")
CBS stands by the documents and believes them to be authentic. This is an organization with a reputation for excellent journalism. Not only do they believe them authentic, but they correspond to information they have from other sources. I haven’t seen anyone said that Bush showed up for his physical because we all know he didn’t and we all know why ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/15 "2004-09-14T17:23:13Z")
CBS stands by the documents and believes them to be authentic. This is an organization with a reputation for excellent journalism. In other words, this ain’t FOX. Not only do they believe them authentic, but they correspond to information they have from other sources. I haven’t seen anyone said that Bush showed up for his physical because we all know he didn’t and we all know why. It’s Bush that organized the Swift Boat Liars. It’s Bush that claims to be “one of the boys” when surrounded by men actually in the military. It’s Bush that held the Abraham Lincoln offshore an extra day so he could play dressup and stage his “mission accomplished” landing. Bush was all too willing to point to his National Guard service. Only he was pointing to an honorable discharge he did not earn. He deserves all the grief he gets. Does anyone seriously deny the facts in the memos? Or if you can deflect the issues by a charge of forgery just long enough till after the election the only goal? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/16 "2004-09-14T18:41:43Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It’s Bush that organized the Swift Boat Liars. Yes. If you re-define “organized” to mean “Someone from the same state gave money to.” It’s interesting that using your definition, I was responsible for “organizing” the NRA this year. > [@](#): > > It’s Bush that claims to be “one of the boys” when surrounded by men actually in the military. Cite? (I actually have no idea what you refer to here.) > [@](#): > > It’s Bush that held the Abraham Lincoln offshore an extra day so he could play dressup and stage his “mission accomplished” landing. Delaying a carrier for a while is well worth it for the commander in chief to say thank you to the troops for a job well done. Most men and women in the military are fans of the president, and appreciated the gesture. > [@](#): > > Bush was all too willing to point to his National Guard service. Bush rarely mentions his service. He certainly doesn’t pepper every speach with it the way Kerry does with Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/17 "2004-09-14T18:53:49Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > CBS stands by the documents and believes them to be authentic. This is an organization with a reputation for excellent journalism. Bwahahahaha! 😃 Yeah, especially [Dan Rather](http://www.ratherbiased.com/bizarre.htm). Aside from the rather spooky story about Kenneth and the frequency, one of my favorite lines was from his '96 election coverage: “They say California’s the big burrito; Texas is a big taco right now. We want to follow that through. Florida is a big tamale.” Great journalism indeed! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/18 "2004-09-14T18:54:10Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > CBS stands by the documents and believes them to be authentic. This is an organization with a reputation for excellent journalism. In other words, this ain’t FOX. Not only do they believe them authentic, but they correspond to information they have from other sources. I haven’t seen anyone said that Bush showed up for his physical because we all know he didn’t and we all know why. No other news source is going along with CBS on this. CBS’s own experts consistently refute what CBS claims they said. The prepoderance of evidence is that the docs are forgeries, CBS’s reputation notwithstanding. > [@](#): > > It’s Bush that organized the Swift Boat Liars. Cite? O’Neill has been a longtime foe of Kerry’s, going back to the early seventies. He surely didn’t need Bush to “organize” him. Your statement is, in fact, a lie. You see, just because an organization might be shady or press false claims (as I think the Swifties at least partially do), does not give you a pass to make false claims about them. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/19 "2004-09-14T18:56:35Z")
> [@](#): > > (CBS) is an organization with a reputation for excellent journalism. In other words, this ain’t FOX. Ahhh, but [NBC](http://www.aim.org/publications/aim_report/1993/03a.html) had an excellent reputation for journalism at one time, too. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414/20 "2004-09-14T19:32:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > And it just so happened to occur when new drug testing was added to the physical. So Lt. Strawnose knew that he’d get busted for cocaine use and skips out of his physical, knowing that between the cracks of the bureaucracy and his own political pull he could get away with it. As I see it, you have three choices. [ol][li]Produce some credible evidence that Bush failed to take his physical because he was abusing cocaine, [\*]Withdraw the smear, or[/li][li]Simply admit that you are no better than the worst of the Swift Boat veterans.[/ol]Which is it? [/li] Regards, Shodan [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memogate-are-cbs-completely-stupid/264414.md?page=2)