# Memphis Belle (1990), and Memphis Belle (1944) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 20, 2006, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761 "2006-01-20T01:58:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/1 "2006-01-20T01:58:11Z")
I’ve watched _Memphis Belle_ again after avoiding it for a number of years. Why would I avoid a movie with airplanes in it? Well, because I grew up watching William Wyler’s 1944 documentary of the same name. That there was a B-17 flying out of England in 1943 that was the first to complete 25 missions, and that it was named _Memphis Belle_ are the only similarities between the two motion pictures. As it happens, I watched Wyler’s _MMemphis Belle_ last night. The dramatic movie is Hollywood schlock. The _Belle_’s last mission is a matter of historical record, as are the names of the crew. But Michael Caton-Jones did not use any of their names. The whole story is fictional. One of the characters is severely wounded during the mission. Actually, the real _Memphis Belle_ flew with her original crew throughout her deployment, and there was only one minor wound. IIRC the crewman only reported it because he was ordered to, it was that minor. And the aircraft is shot up pretty badly. Now, the real plane did take a few hits; but in the movie they’re talking about losing a wing due to an engine fire, half the tail is shot away, and one of the landing gear would not extend. These types of damage did occur to B-17s and other aircraft during the war, but this is not how the _Belle_’s 25th mission went. Yeah, yeah, ‘dramatic license, blahblahblah’. If you’re making a fictional movie, please use a fictional aircraft and a fictional mission! Another annoying detail is the costuming. The officers’ hats are clearly British-pattern. Avirex/The Cockpit made (still makes?) accurate reproductions of the ‘50-Mission Crush’. Why spend the money and effort to make the headgear – wrongly – when they could just buy them ‘off the shelf’? And there’s this one extra… You know it’s bad when you notice someone who shouldn’t be noticed. Like Ted Turner’s shot in _Gettysberg_. The guy just didn’t act well, and he sticks out like a sore thumb. (FWIW, he’s the guy in Aviator shades, standing on the control tower near the end of the film.) Must be somebody’s relative. Or else Caton-Jones was not paying proper attention to the scene. If you have never seen Wyler’s documentary and you don’t give a rodent’s rectum about accuracy, you may like this film. It’s trite, but not as bad as some. But if you _do_ appreciate accuracy or have ever seen Wyler’s film, I can’t really recommend it. What about Wyler’s film? Wyler flew five missions on the real _Memphis Belle_ to gather footage. All of the combat footage is real. The rest of the footage revolving around the crew was staged. But it _did_ use the actual people involved. _Memphis Belle_ 1944 is a propaganda film. It tells the story of the _Belle_’s 25th mission so as to generate money for war bonds and to show how the U.S. was kicking some Heine arse. And it does it well. It’s a very stirring piece of work. The 60th Anniversary Collector’s Edition DVD came as a two-disc set. The first disc had an ‘HD Widescreen’ version and a full-frame restored version. Now, films at the time were shot in 4:3 format. Whence the widescreen? Obviously a marketing ploy. That wouldn’t be bad except for two things: First, the footage was not restored. It was full of scratches and dirt, and the colour were washed out. Secondly, it ended a few seconds too soon and cut off the last bit of narration! Sloppy. But the original-format version was very nice indeed. The colours were as vibrant as they could be without being overdone. Most of the scratches and dirt were removed. The audio was good. Best of all, they fixed something that has always bothered me since I first started watching this documentary every time it was broadcast. The original editor ‘flopped’ some of the footage. There are a few scenes that are obviously reversed, including numbers and lettering. I’m very happy they fixed these goofs in the restored version. And of course, the movie goes all the way to the end, instead of being clipped like the widescreen version. The DVD extras are good and bad. The second disc contains outtake footage that was not used in the film. (Else they wouldn’t be called ‘outtakes’!) We can see multiple takes of many of the familiar shots. There’s a _lot_ of footage and scenes that were not used in the finished film. Unfortunately, most of this footage has no audio. it would be interesting to hear it. (That’s the ‘bad’ in ‘good and bad’.) Still, the images are interesting from an historical standpoint as well as a filmmaking one. There are two versions of a ceremony after the 25th mission; one in B&W with audio, and another in colour without audio. One of the audio clips shows the crew about to enter the aircraft. The pilot clumsily delivers patriotic lines about flying their ‘26th mission’ to go back to the States to drum up public support on their bond drive. Very clumsy. It’s a good thing they cut that bit out of the original film. One of my favourite extras is _Winning Your Wings_ starring (then-) Lieutenant James Stewart. Stewart climbs down from a BT-13 Valiant and addresses the audience in his inimitable folksy way as if he were in the cinema with them. (Well, hello! Looks like I’m in the movies again… [Removing parachute] ‘Don’t go away while I get this thing off.’) He also interacts (through his narration) with other characters in the film. He goes on to describe how _you_ can join the Army Air Force and become a part of the team, no matter if you’ve completed college, if you’re still in high school, are married, or single. If I were alive and of age back then, I’d rush right out to sign up! (Incidentally, Jimmy Stewart eventually rose to the rank of Brigadier General, in 1959.) Another featurette is _Mission Accomplished: The Story Of The Flying Fortress_. As you may guess, this is another ‘Victory is assured!’ type propaganda film displaying one of our 'baddes’t machines. The cool thing about this film is that the B-17s are the early models (could be B-17As). The later Forts, like the _Memphis Belle_, were ten feet longer and had much larger tails. If you like authentic WWII films, Wyler’s documentary is a ‘must see’. I recommend the full-screen version on the 60th Anniversary Collector’s Edition, as it is the cleanest and has the best colours of any version I’ve seen. And the extras are worthwhile as well. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/2 "2006-01-20T03:11:55Z")
Nitpick: It’s the Army Air _Forces_. My dad was a bombadier-navigator in the Pacific. ---
**Author:** ![Blackclaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e68b1a/32.png) [@Blackclaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackclaw)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/3 "2006-01-20T12:54:47Z")
My father is part of the restoration team working on the actual Memphis Belle at the US Air Force Museum. I went to see the old aircraft about a month ago. I’ll try to post some pictures sometime. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/4 "2006-01-20T15:03:32Z")
What are your takes on the films? ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/5 "2006-01-20T15:14:36Z")
I had the honor of meeting Robert Morgan at an air show in Tampa just before he died…he signed a copy of his book for me. Really nice guy. Wish my dad would have had the chance to meet him…dad was the nose gunner on a B24 in WW2, got shot down and had to bail out over Yugoslavia, spent 4 months in a POW camp. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/6 "2006-01-20T15:19:41Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Nitpick: It’s the Army Air _Forces_. My dad was a bombadier-navigator in the Pacific. It wasn’t the Army Air _Corps_ in WWII? I’m not sure when it separated as a separate branch. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/7 "2006-01-20T15:20:59Z")
Yep, it would have been better if the Matthew Modine film had used a different name for the bomber, to prevent any comparisons with the historical aircraft and movie. It’s actually better than most fictional WW2 movies, with better pacing and acting (other than Harry Connick Jr. as the tailgunner), good video, and not violently flouting fact. It complied with the genre’s requirements anyway, including the “meet the crew” scene where you can guess who dies in which order - and they complied with \*those \* traditions as well. 🙂 The real Memphis Belle is being moved to the USAF Museum in Dayton after the city of Memphis’ ongoing failure to put a building around it. It will take a good deal of restoration before being put on display, after so many decades in the weather. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/8 "2006-01-20T15:38:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yep, it would have been better if the Matthew Modine film had used a different name for the bomber, to prevent any comparisons with the historical aircraft and movie. It’s actually better than most fictional WW2 movies… The comparison with the historical _Memphis Belle_ is what really killed the film for me. _Vintage Aircraft Nose Art_ (Gary Valant) has hundreds of photographs of named aircraft. There’s a photo of the back of a jacket from [_Visibility Perfect_](http://www.artbysky.org/images/001/A2VisibilityPerfect.jpg) (modern repro here) in the book. I want to have that painted on my A-2, though I’m thinking of using the orange background [as seen here](http://www.fightingcolors.com/custompagestuff/b17visibility72.jpg), but I’d keep her sitting on the bomb. Anyway, they could have chosen one of the lesser-known aircraft that actually existed, or they could have made up a name. Say they decided to name the pilot ‘Taylor’. The plane could have a pin-up with ‘Taylor Maid’ or something. If the film and aircraft were not called _Memphis Belle_ I would have liked it better. Though I still would have caught the British-pattern headgear and the dopey-looking extra. ---
**Author:** ![dasgupta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@dasgupta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasgupta)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/9 "2006-01-20T19:13:39Z")
Damn you, **Johnny!** You got me all worked up to Netflix it. While Netflix does have a _Memphis Belle_ from 1944, the comments all claim it’s the wrong movie. An example: > [@](#): > > As noted, this is NOT the William Wyler film, although he is shown briefly. It’s not bad, sort of standard BBC\History Channel stuff. Well… time to search for it. ---
**Author:** ![Emily\_Litella](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emily_litella/32/3370_2.png) [@Emily\_Litella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emily_Litella)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/10 "2006-01-20T19:32:06Z")
I believe at the end of the Matthew Modine movie it states that it’s a work of fiction based on a composite of all the missions flown over Europe in WWll. It’s supposed to be a tribute to ALL of the flyers who fought in the war. It may be a bad choice for a movie name, but if they didn’t use it I never would have heard of the Memphis Belle. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/11 "2006-01-20T19:37:21Z")
> [@dasgupta](#): > > Damn you, **Johnny!** You got me all worked up to Netflix it. While Netflix does have a _Memphis Belle_ from 1944, the comments all claim it’s the wrong movie. > > Well… time to search for it. [This is the version you want](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002RAP4M/qid=1137785752/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/103-8395179-4959802?s=dvd&v=glance&n=130). ---
**Author:** ![buckgully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb9ed0/32.png) [@buckgully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buckgully)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/12 "2006-01-20T20:43:49Z")
I bought the Disney “Memphis Belle” DVD because it was in the Fry’s budget bin and I like B-17s. It is truly pure Hollywood schlock, but there are some good shots of the planes taxiing around (most of the airborne shots look like really bad bluescreen effects). I’ve never seen the Wyler documentary, I’m going to have to check that out. Now I’ve got two DVDs to get thanks to JohnnyLA’s threads this week. > [@](#): > > You know it’s bad when you notice someone who shouldn’t be noticed. Like Ted Turner’s shot in Gettysberg. The guy just didn’t act well, and he sticks out like a sore thumb. (FWIW, he’s the guy in Aviator shades, standing on the control tower near the end of the film.) Yeah, I noticed him too. What was Jan-Michael Vincent doing up on the tower anyway? Was Airwolf going to fly up and rescue the crew? Everyone else is standing around looking worried, and he’s got this weird expression on his face like he had just decided on what kind of soup to get for lunch. I’m not actually sure that was Jan-Michael Vincent, he’s not listed in the credits. Looks a lot like him, though. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/13 "2006-01-20T20:49:00Z")
Another thing that really irks me about the 1990 film is that it cost a B-17. An aircraft from France was destroyed in a taxiing accident. Nobody was killed, but the aircraft was a total loss. It would not be worth it for _any_ movie. But it’s especially bitter that the aircraft was lost on _this_ one. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/14 "2006-01-20T21:02:40Z")
> [@buckgully](#): > > I’ve never seen the Wyler documentary, I’m going to have to check that out. Now I’ve got two DVDs to get thanks to JohnnyLA’s threads this week. What’s the other one? ---
**Author:** ![buckgully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb9ed0/32.png) [@buckgully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buckgully)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/15 "2006-01-20T21:57:43Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > What’s the other one? Dambusters. ---
**Author:** ![UncaStuart](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncastuart/32/404_2.png) [@UncaStuart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncaStuart)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/16 "2006-01-21T06:23:54Z")
> [@PoorYorick](#): > > It wasn’t the Army Air _Corps_ in WWII? I’m not sure when it separated as a separate branch. The Army Air Corps became the Army Air Forces in June, 1941. It became a separate branch in 1947. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/17 "2006-01-21T07:20:56Z")
> [@PoorYorick](#): > > It wasn’t the Army Air _Corps_ in WWII? [_Was It the Air Corps or Army Air Forces in WWII?_](http://www.aafha.org/aaf_or_aircorps.html), by C. C. Elebash. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/memphis-belle-1990-and-memphis-belle-1944/340761/18 "2006-01-21T13:59:32Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > [_Was It the Air Corps or Army Air Forces in WWII?_](http://www.aafha.org/aaf_or_aircorps.html), by C. C. Elebash. Thanks, **Walloon** and **UncaStuart**. At least it’s nice to now that I’m not the only one who wasn’t sure about that that according to the link.