# Men are attracted to lesbians, but women are not attracted to gay men...how come? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 1, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148 "2005-08-01T15:29:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/41 "2005-08-02T05:25:19Z")
> [@Kendraen Ideals](#): > > Honey, guys don’t need to be gay to give makeup tips, just “emo.” Or glam rock. In fairness, that emo crap _is_ pretty gay… ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/42 "2005-08-02T05:29:12Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > I think society has more of an expectation that men fulfill traditional gender roles, than it has for women. That’s one of the more surprising statements i’ve seen for a while. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/43 "2005-08-02T05:37:09Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > I sincerely hope that nobody’s trying to deny that “girls on girls is hot, guys on guys is gross” is a commonly-accepted viewpoint. Well of course, to the extent I consider What Straight Men Think to = The Commonly Accepted Veiwpoint… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/44 "2005-08-02T06:24:35Z")
> [@betenoir](#): > > Well of course, to the extent I consider What Straight Men Think to = The Commonly Accepted Veiwpoint… He said “a” not “the.” ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/45 "2005-08-02T06:52:45Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > That’s one of the more surprising statements i’ve seen for a while. Not really. After all, we have a positive/neutral word for a young girl who violates gender stereotypes, “tomboy,” but no analogous positive/neutral word for a young boy who does the same. Girls wear pants; boys aren’t ‘allowed’ to wear dresses. It certainly seems that, in Western culture at least, it’s much more accepted for women to have traits that have traditionally been gendered male than vice-versa. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/46 "2005-08-02T06:56:56Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > [This](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:LsEUk1WV8dkJ:www.ynot.com/modules.php%3Fop%3Dmodload%26name%3DNews%26file%3Dea_article%26sid%3D8356%26mode%3Dthread%26order%3D0%26thold%3D0+playgirl+gay+men+women+subscribers&hl=en) site says 80% of Playgirls’ subscribers are gay men. I would imagine most people who buy stuff like that are gay men. But we aren’t talking about stuff like Playboy, we are talking about Slash/boy’s love/yaoi/shounen ai, which is **completely** different. I love male/male porn and know and interact with hundreds of females who also have an affection for it. Playgirl does nothing for 99% of us. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/47 "2005-08-02T07:11:25Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Not really. After all, we have a positive/neutral word for a young girl who violates gender stereotypes, “tomboy,” but no analogous positive/neutral word for a young boy who does the same. Girls wear pants; boys aren’t ‘allowed’ to wear dresses. It certainly seems that, in Western culture at least, it’s much more accepted for women to have traits that have traditionally been gendered male than vice-versa. Well, if you’ve only ever heard the term “tomboy” used in a “positive/neutral” way, then i think you’ve spent your life among a rather unrepresentative (although, IMO, laudable) section of the population. There are planty of places in North America where the term is used as a pejorative. I’m not denying that traditional gender boundaries have been crossed by women, and that in many instances this has become tolerated and even accepted. But it seems to me that, in many ways and in many situations, women are still as heavily constrained by gender expectations as men, if not more so. ---
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Gene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@Soylent\_Gene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Gene)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/48 "2005-08-02T07:15:07Z")
These points have been made earlier, but to summarize based on my personal experiences: Those “lesbians” men like to watch are usually hetero bi-curious babes that are doing it for the enjoyment of men watching (such as myself) who would like to be transported into the scene and made into a tits and ass sandwich. Most real lesbian couples look nothing like the porn chicks. Women in general aren’t real big on porn, though many get turned on by watching two hunks making out. **However** , I dont think they want to watch the ass pounding butt sex. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/49 "2005-08-02T10:00:46Z")
Sexual psychology all comes down to what will be effective in passing on genes. In the lizard bit of male brains, they are attracted to females because they are impregnation options. Females with whom you can emotionally bond are good, but when it really comes down to it, the focus has to be on getting your sperm into a healthy female so they’ll raise your healthy offspring, regardless of what she thinks of you. Who she will emotionally bond with to raise the offspring is not. In the lizard bit of female brains, they are attacted to males that will emotionally attach to them and provide food and shelter for them and their offspring. Getting sperm with healthy genes is good but when it really comes down to it, the focus has to be on getting the male who will hang around to raise the offspring. Males who don’t lust after females are not the focus. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/50 "2005-08-02T11:09:17Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Why shouldn’t you? Seriously, what’s up with all the over-reaction to **even sven** ’s post? It’s just that I have never heard that attributed to a straight man before. Feminists, lesbians, gay men, sure. But never a straight man. > [@](#): > > How many times have you heard an “I’ll fix her” type boast from a guy hearing about a hot lesbian, or a guy not taking a woman’s claim of bisexuality or homosexuality seriously? From a guy with an IQ above room temperature level (centigrade)? Never. There are idiots everywhere. Some guys shout “hey, nice ass!” at girls in the street. I don’t, but I still like nice asses. I’m sure some guys like to watch two pretty girls making out because they believe that the girls would rather fuck them. I don’t, but I still like to watch two pretty girls making out. Not apologizing for it either. As for the “you can’t say you’re turned on by lesbian sex because you wouldn’t like seeing one butch fucking another butch with a strapon” argument… puh-leese. I don’t want to see a 400-pound hairy man fuck an 80-year-old grandmother either. Does that mean I’m not allowed to say that I’m turned on by straight sex? If that’s the case, apparently I’m not turned on by anything. Fancy that. I know perfectly well why lesbians have sex. I know it’s not for my sake, and when girls do make out for effect and to attract guys, it’s a turnoff for me. I have no illusions about any of this. And, which may shock some of you, I have absolutely no interest in watching the former Pricegal making out with her girlfriend. That would hurt. Badly. None of this changes one simple fact: for me, two girls together is hot. That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/51 "2005-08-02T11:13:53Z")
Can I just correct the obvious idiocy in my own post and change “lizard brain” to “ape brain” or something? Lizards don’t mate for life etc. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/52 "2005-08-02T11:58:45Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > That’s one of the more surprising statements I’ve seen for a while. Why do you say that? > [@kimera](#): > > But we aren’t talking about stuff like Playboy, we are talking about Slash/boy’s love/yaoi/shounen ai, which is **completely** different. I love male/male porn and know and interact with hundreds of females who also have an affection for it. Playgirl does nothing for 99% of us. Perhaps, but unless you have a cite, I’m inclined to believe it resembles the readership of Playgirl. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/53 "2005-08-02T12:51:18Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Perhaps, but unless you have a cite, I’m inclined to believe it resembles the readership of Playgirl. A cite for what part? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/54 "2005-08-02T13:05:46Z")
Basically, Playgirl contains pictures of nude, flaccid men. Slash, however contains well written stories, in all flavors of eroticism, as well as pictures. Since the drawlings are made by people who enjoy doing such things, the men in yaoi actually look like they want to be there. **brickbacon** is asking for proof that these two things attract different audiences. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/55 "2005-08-02T14:00:10Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Basically, Playgirl contains pictures of nude, flaccid men. Slash, however contains well written stories, in all flavors of eroticism, as well as pictures. Since the drawlings are made by people who enjoy doing such things, the men in yaoi actually look like they want to be there. **brickbacon** is asking for proof that these two things attract different audiences. 😃 PWNED! **brickbacon** , go hang your head in shame. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/56 "2005-08-02T14:41:15Z")
I guess I’ve been doing it wrong for a lot of years, because I like M/M gay porn and I’m female. A friend of mine (male) and I share the videos that we find. Only thing I like looking at more than one hot dude with a big package is more than one hot dude with a big package. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/57 "2005-08-02T16:14:14Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Perhaps, but unless you have a cite, I’m inclined to believe it resembles the readership of Playgirl. I had cites in my post. Go back and click the links. From Wikipedia > [@](#): > > Women make up the majority of yaoi readership in Japan where it began as manga and, now, around the world From Yaoi con > [@](#): > > Yaoi is a Japanese publishing genre that encompasses manga, novels and short stories produced by female artists and writers for the enjoyment of female readers. If you want a real life cite, just come to Yaoi Con and you will see for yourself. If you can’t get to yaoi con, then just join the livejournal/yahoo yaoi communities [More](http://www.boston.com/ae/books/articles/2005/04/25/he_loves_him_she_loves_them/) [cites](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slash_fiction) [as](http://slashgirls.tripod.com/slashrant.html) [needed.](http://www.bebeautifulmanga.com/faq.cfm) As for the actual level of popularity of slash/boy’s love in the US, it is impossible to say for certain how large the numbers are. I’ve been into it for over a decade now and I’ve seen it grow from an only-online community to BL novels being published in english and sold in bookstores. The popularity will only continue to grow. > [@](#): > > I dont think they want to watch the ass pounding butt sex. Based on what type of comics are most popular… I doubt that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/58 "2005-08-02T16:23:50Z")
> [@kimera](#): > > If you want a real life cite, just come to Yaoi Con and you will see for yourself. **Hamish** attended Yaoi Con in 2001 and was one of a mere five or ten guys amid the entire massive attendance. Of the other men, a very few others were queer, and the rest seemed to be straight anime fans who couldn’t pass up a con of any kind. Later, at the Anime North con in 2003, he and his friend Matrim were literally the only guys in the yaoi room. A woman asked him if he was in the right room, and another asked him if he was just there to pick up women. He had to assure them that, yes, some gay boys do like watching anime with gay boys in it. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/59 "2005-08-02T16:25:19Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > PWNED!\ Actually, I figured it was more like Reading Comprehension’d! [sub]What would that [look](http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/Arrow%27d_Guy) like?[/sub] :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/60 "2005-08-02T16:27:06Z")
While this a debate instead of a poll, I just wanted to throw in that I like watching dual-girls not because of a “pro-lesbian” thing: 1. No man butt (Gah! Dude! Ergh.) 2. Double the girl butt (Hellooooooo) So simple math. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148.md?page=4)