# Men are attracted to lesbians, but women are not attracted to gay men...how come? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 1, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148 "2005-08-01T15:29:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/61 "2005-08-02T17:44:07Z")
> [@elfbabe](#): > > So as not to overly disturb **Qadgop** , I’ll spoiler this: > > I am definitely no exception to the above trend. H\<3tt. Totally. Many of **elfbabe** ’s posts demonstrate that she is truly my daughter. This one demonstrates that she is truly her mother’s daughter also! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/62 "2005-08-02T19:13:51Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > I guess I’ve been doing it wrong for a lot of years, because I like M/M gay porn and I’m female. Me too…except for the “lot” of years part. It’s only been a couple. But still. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/63 "2005-08-02T20:01:46Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > **Hamish** attended Yaoi Con in 2001 and was one of a mere five or ten guys amid the entire massive attendance. Of the other men, a very few others were queer, and the rest seemed to be straight anime fans who couldn’t pass up a con of any kind. > > Later, at the Anime North con in 2003, he and his friend Matrim were literally the only guys in the yaoi room. A woman asked him if he was in the right room, and another asked him if he was just there to pick up women. He had to assure them that, yes, some gay boys do like watching anime with gay boys in it. This sounds a lot like the slash convention I regularly attend in Baltimore; there’s a handful of gay men amid a throng of approximately 150-200 women. One very kind gentleman does a regular seminar on the mechanics of gay sex for aspiring slash writers who don’t have much practical knowledge of the subject. I’ve been writing slash online for nearly 10 years now (and much longer in private before I found an audience), and I know hundreds of women who also write homoerotic fiction or enjoy reading it. Most of my friends, as a matter of fact. A lot of movie-watching also goes on at conventions and parties, so it’s not just the printed word that we enjoy. 🙂 Whenever this topic of women liking two guys together comes up, I’m always surprised by the number of men who find the idea incomprehensible. I understand why it’s not to their personal tastes–any more than I find porn for straight men interesting–but is it really that difficult to turn the concepts around? “Straight men find women’s bodies attractive” / “Straight women find men’s bodies attractive.” “Many straight men like watching two chicks together” / “Many straight women like watching two guys together.” It seems like a pretty straightforward analogy to me. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/64 "2005-08-02T20:20:43Z")
> [@Miss Mapp](#): > > One very kind gentleman does a regular seminar on the mechanics of gay sex for aspiring slash writers who don’t have much practical knowledge of the subject. Gay mechanics? You should watch **Body Shop** , with Billy Herrington. It has all the gay mechanics you could want. Herrington, in particular, is scorching. Or so I hear. ---
**Author:** ![SemperFi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SemperFi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SemperFi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/65 "2005-08-02T20:58:33Z")
> [@Sage Rat](#): > > While this a debate instead of a poll, I just wanted to throw in that I like watching dual-girls not because of a “pro-lesbian” thing: > > 1. No man butt (Gah! Dude! Ergh.) > 2. Double the girl butt (Hellooooooo) > > So simple math. Bingo. “Lesbo” scenes provide a pretext for not seeing what we don’t want to see (shlongs and hairy asses), and seeing double the parts we do like. It’s . . . distracting to see a penis not belonging to me sliding in and out. Not because I’m “afraid I might be gay,” but just because attractive young women are the **only** exception to my general rule that I don’t really need or want to see anyones’ genitals. I kindly make an exception in their case because it provides some ancillary enjoyment. I also join in the points about women not having (generally) near as much interest in genital-focused/full on porn as do men. I had a gf (a couple, actually) who professed to like porn, but turned out to mean the super-softcore Cinemax stuff that shows breastices, at most – and they’d freak out if a picture of actual “parts” came on. (One expressed particular discomfort with the “disembodied genitals closeup,” which was funny, as that’s just what I liked in lesbo porn). Finally, while I know the crowd contains people who don’t find man on man sex “gross,” there’s a strong subjective argument that the gen. pop. (of men and women) finds sexual conduct that doesn’t involve fecal matter or spurting spooge to be less . . . messy, and hence less viscerally “gross.” ---
**Author:** ![no\_screen\_name\_for\_now](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@no\_screen\_name\_for\_now](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/no_screen_name_for_now)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/66 "2005-08-02T21:19:03Z")
> [@betenoir](#): > > :eek: It boggles my mind that a hetrosexual female\* could think men look silly naked. Men are beautiful…preferably naked. No offence, chacun a son gout, but it boggles me. > > Anyway though, Thin, I’d say you have your answer…for the percentage of women who would agreee with the OP. But as has been noted, LOTS of woman are not only attracted to gay men but are turned on by the idea of two men having sex. The major difference may be more that men are the greater consumers of visual porn. > \*I’m assuming given the OP you’re posting to speak from a hetrosexual standpoint, I could be wrong 🙂 . You’re right in your assumption that I’m heterosexual female, **Betenoir**. I love men. Love 'em! I just happen to think that they look rather silly naked unless they’re about to make love to me or are serving me food. You couldn’t really call most of them “graceful.” But hey, different strokes for different folks (no pun intended). Whatever crumbles your cookie. I was just offering an opinion, which I think is what was asked for. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/67 "2005-08-02T22:16:01Z")
> [@plnnr](#): > > Gay mechanics? You should watch **Body Shop** , with Billy Herrington. It has all the gay mechanics you could want. Herrington, in particular, is scorching. > Or so I hear. I’m sure there’s some nice fic about him online somewhere… 🙂 (I’m sure there’s fic about just about anybody, any pairing, if you just know where to look.) ---
**Author:** ![MrJackboots](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MrJackboots](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrJackboots)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/68 "2005-08-02T22:39:32Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > **Hamish** attended Yaoi Con in 2001 and was one of a mere five or ten guys amid the entire massive attendance. Of the other men, a very few others were queer, and the rest seemed to be straight anime fans who couldn’t pass up a con of any kind. > > Later, at the Anime North con in 2003, he and his friend Matrim were literally the only guys in the yaoi room. A woman asked him if he was in the right room, and another asked him if he was just there to pick up women. He had to assure them that, yes, some gay boys do like watching anime with gay boys in it. I lost a bet and had to go last year. :o It’s still almost all girls. It sold out the hotel (and a good chunk of the one next door, I’m told), so it’s not a matter of reaching a limited audience in advertising or anything. ---
**Author:** ![no\_screen\_name\_for\_now](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@no\_screen\_name\_for\_now](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/no_screen_name_for_now)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/69 "2005-08-02T23:16:44Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > This is what I’ve always heard, from American women, anyway. > > But then, how do you explain the women who go nuts over male strippers? Women’s only nights, bachelorette parties, etc. If that well hung beefcake looks so silly jumping around and swinging in the breeze, why does it take some women in the crowd just a few drinks before they’re shaking hands with Mr Happy and even doing the whipped cream slurpee? You can’t explain them. They are freaks of nature. I’ll admit that there are an awful lot of them out there. I’ve seen it, kinda. If sitting and covering my eyes and/or laughing my ass off at the strippers can be called “seeing it.” Women, IMHO, do this when male strippers are present because they feel entitled and/or obligated to objectify naked men the way that naked women have been objectified for years and years by men who were wearing clothes. It just makes us giggle, where it makes a man horny. Unfortunately, and as much as I would like to deny it…women are as shitty as men when it comes to exploiting the opposite sex. I could go into the whole schmear about how the Catholic church has “whorified” women as a whole, but I won’t…unless someone asks me to. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/70 "2005-08-02T23:54:48Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > PWNED! **brickbacon** , go hang your head in shame. 😛 > [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Actually, I figured it was more like Reading Comprehension’d! > > [sub]What would that [look](http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/Arrow%27d_Guy) like?[/sub] :dubious: What the hell are you two talking about? I was asking about the purchasers of M/M porn, not fictional writing. I should have been more clear on that, but I still things far more gay men buy M/M porn than women. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/71 "2005-08-03T00:04:42Z")
I don’t even like porn in general, and I would rather see gay male porn than ANY Chippendale person. The only male dancers/strippers that I liked were the guy in The Full Monty. I don’t understand the female response to the bachelorette party/Chippendale stuff either. Playgirl is just as silly as Playboy. No thanks. Call me clueless, but I have been told by more than one hetero male that female/female porn is great, _because the guy can fantasize about him being there with the two of them_ . Since, in my experience, guys don’t want to fanatsize about themselves with two gay men(that they would admit to in public, anyway), the market isn’t geared for them. IMO, women are more into erotica (that is, written, not visual sex), but YMMV. to each his.her own. I had no idea about the Japanese gay male anime world. Now I’ll look at Pokemon in a whole new light. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MrJackboots](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MrJackboots](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrJackboots)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/72 "2005-08-03T00:13:39Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > I was asking about the purchasers of M/M porn, not fictional writing. I should have been more clear on that, but I still things far more gay men buy M/M porn than women. How specific do you want to get? I don’t know about you, but I’d be more than happy to consider a lot of slashfic as “porn”; I’ve seen some that’s just as graphic and unashamedly all-about-the-sex than anything that Larry Flynt ever published. Does it have to be visual? A few of my friends have more-or-less standard-issue rabid-shrieking-yaoi-fangirl collections; those things get _highly_ graphic. The fact that one of these friends has a few hundred dollars worth of these comics _in a language that she can’t read_ seems to imply that the writing is not always the selling point. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/73 "2005-08-03T02:50:36Z")
> [@MrJackboots](#): > > I lost a bet and had to go last year. Will we see you this year? 🙂 I’ve seen the male audience steadily increase, but the majority of the males are still either there for their girlfriends or to get laid. I can count on one hand the amount of male yaoi fans I’ve encountered and I’ve sold manga at yaoicon for years! Some of the doujinshi/manga/anime I collect is VERY graphic, much more detailed than actual person-on-person porn. It also tends to contain a lot of kinks that just can’t be done with real people. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/74 "2005-08-03T03:22:02Z")
> [@Soylent Gene](#): > > **However** , I dont think they want to watch the ass pounding butt sex. You think wrong. **brickbacon** , fictional writing can be porn. And yes, the vast majority of slashers are female. So? ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/75 "2005-08-03T03:24:58Z")
I can’t be the only one here who’s known lesbians who were turned on by gay male porn. And the straight girls who munch for money on camera are not lesbians. They’re straight girls who’ll do anything for money and drugs. How many straight guys really wanted to see Anne Heche and Ellen DeGeneres getting it on? Do most straight guys find Suze Orman hot? (Well I do, but then I’m… odd.) The OP is absurd on its face. It does make for some fun conversation, though, IMHO and MPIMS style. ---
**Author:** ![supervenusfreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@supervenusfreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supervenusfreak)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/76 "2005-08-03T04:34:03Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > And the straight girls who munch for money on camera are not lesbians. They’re straight girls who’ll do anything for money and drugs. Ditto the straight guys who make gay porn. Viagra has done wonders for that industry. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/77 "2005-08-03T07:50:04Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > The OP is absurd on its face. I think the title to the thread is a bit inaccurate, but the text is not. I think you need to be careful with confusing data and anecdote. A basically useful generalisation (grass is green) is not made meaningfully absurd by pointing out that you are aware of some varietals that are purple. People chipping in to talk about particular subcultures, or that _they_ have a particular like or dislike or know someone (or several someones) who have a particular like or dislike is not particularly helpful. It seems to me that firstly everything I’ve ever read suggests that visual porn (and note that the OP says watching not reading) is used by something like 95% men, 5% women, secondly there is a huge amount of girl on girl porn available presumably because it has a good market and thirdly even if you make the completely unjustified assumption that every single female user of visual porn buys male on male porn only, that still suggests the OP is dead right when he says that men are more into watching two women getting it on than vice versa. Does anyone here seriously think that if you did a survey of a _representative_ sample of men, to determine if they are “into watching two women get it on” and a _representative_ sample of women vice versa, the survey would come back even handed? _Representative_ by the way does not “women from a particular Japanese subculture”. Nor does it mean “hip women from the 'Dope”. Furthermore, “into watching” doesn’t mean “fantasize about” nor does it mean “read about”. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/78 "2005-08-03T08:15:35Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > It seems to me that firstly everything I’ve ever read suggests that visual porn (and note that the OP says watching not reading) is used by something like 95% men, 5% women, secondly there is a huge amount of girl on girl porn available presumably because it has a good market and thirdly even if you make the completely unjustified assumption that every single female user of visual porn buys male on male porn only, that still suggests the OP is dead right when he says that men are more into watching two women getting it on than vice versa. Point, but this only shows that men are more into _watching_, full stop, than women are. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/79 "2005-08-03T09:43:43Z")
> [@SemperFi](#): > > … there’s a strong subjective argument that the gen. pop. (of men and women) finds sexual conduct that doesn’t involve fecal matter or spurting spooge to be less . . . messy, and hence less viscerally “gross.” If you think real lesbian sex never involves spurting fluids… well, never mind. > [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > And the straight girls who munch for money on camera are not lesbians. They’re straight girls who’ll do anything for money and drugs. “There’s nothing even remotely lesbian about them! …These NAILS! Bigger than my fucking apartment with these nails! Now let me explain for you, because you may be lesbian-impaired, sir, but these nails are a YEAST INFECTION WAITING TO HAPPEN. Going out with that babe would be like going out with Edward fuckin’ Scissorhands!” - Lea Delaria ---
**Author:** ![MrJackboots](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MrJackboots](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrJackboots)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148/80 "2005-08-03T10:03:33Z")
> [@kimera](#): > > Will we see you this year? 🙂 I’ve seen the male audience steadily increase, but the majority of the males are still either there for their girlfriends or to get laid. I can count on one hand the amount of male yaoi fans I’ve encountered and I’ve sold manga at yaoicon for years! > > Some of the doujinshi/manga/anime I collect is VERY graphic, much more detailed than actual person-on-person porn. It also tends to contain a lot of kinks that just can’t be done with real people. I hope so; I had a lot of fun, especially considering that I was wandering around lost for most of the con. It depends somewhat if I can keep losing my bet. I’m in this weird halfway, getting-my-feet-wet situation. . . . . . . I’m going to have to upgrade to a full subscription soon. I feel like I should explain that, but at the same time, it’s more appropriate for PM. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-are-attracted-to-lesbians-but-women-are-not-attracted-to-gay-men-how-come/315148.md?page=5)