Yay Catsix! Doppleganger! I’m not exactly sure what you are saying about feminism. I’m not smart enough. I sure do like the bitchy way you’ve said it though.
Like I said, no-true-Scotsman inevitably shows up. ‘When those people say it, even if they’re the biggest feminist organizations in the world, it’s not real feminism.’
Oh I forgot the part where i’m supposed to thank feminists for something they didn’t give me. Right. Sorry, not my bag. I don’t owe shit to any sexist.
Better bone up then. If you’re supposed to be me and I’m supposed to be you, we need to know exactly what the other said.
Cite?
I would never ask or expect you to thank anyone. God forbid. But saying that all feminists want to screw over men via their “enforced equality of outcome, regardless of fairness” is just absurd, and I think anyone interested in fairness realizes that. You’re not interested in fairness, you’re just grinding your completely cite-free axe.
Really, no cites? Aren’t you even a little embarrassed at your own unwillingness to make this a real debate?
This is the Internet, Rubystreak.
Being embarrassed is for when you shit your pants in a meeting with the client’s board of directors and your boss.
Embarrassed on the Internet? I think not.
Embarrassed when you make an ass out of yourself arguing bullshit? Not when you’re totally shameless, I guess.
It gets old after a while, trust me.
The irony here is that many feminists have been fighting for a fair division of domestic labor, so I’m sure they’re not fans of the commercials in question and would prefer that boys and men be encouraged (even through media depictions) to change diapers, mop the floor, cook dinner, etc. But maybe that’s just me and my type being all unhappy again.
That’s because mowing the lawn, raking the leaves, shoveling the snow, painting the window frames, trimming the shrubbery, fixing the leaky faucet, cleaning the gutters, trimming around the sidewalks, washing the cars, etc. don’t count as household chores when it comes to ‘fair division of domestic labor’, does it?
I mean, you didn’t intend to leave off the traditionally male chores, did you? Why one might think that you wanted men to cook all the food, wash and iron the laundry, change all the diapers, and mop the floors in addition to all the stuff they have to do to the yard and the outside of the house already…
Fallacy of false attribution in order to create another straw man for you to light on fire and dance around. Cat Fight merely said she wanted an equal division of household labor. You assume that she’s being sexist and that the division of labor at her house is currently based on strictly gender stereotyped roles, that want her real agenda is is to force her husband to do all the chores, and that she’s ignoring what her husband does You actually have no idea what Cat Fight’s domestic arrangement with her husband is, if it is equitable, and how it’s divided, of course. Not making assumptions about people would destroy your straw man.
Shamelessly bad debating tactics. I do have to admit, once you get going, you are quite amusing, though. Do keep on.
No actually I was wondering why the hell she only brought up chores that are traditionally considered to be the female’s responsibility and ignored everything traditionally considered to be the male’s responsibility.
If she were truly fair, her list would have included both.
You don’t even know if she has a yard, or if she rents and therefore has no lawn to mow, gutters to clean, or snow to shovel. You don’t know if she’s a plumber and fixes all her own faucets, if she has a car and if so, who washes it. If you were interested in being fair, you wouldn’t shoot first and ask questions later. Your assumptions show your flagrant bias.
Actually, I would go further and say that feminists, as a group, want to get as much as they can for women without regards to equality of opportunity or outcome.
Of course this doesn’t apply to all feminists. But my sense is that “equality” is just a rallying cry for rent seeking.
Which is why she talked about commercials and how ‘feminists’ (general term there, eh) have been fighting for the equal division of domestic labor for such a long time and then only included stuff traditionally done by women as ‘domestic labor’.
Now you claim she was referring specifically to her own house, because you can’t weasel out of the fact that the traditionally male chores were flatly ignored.
That should be “equality” is OFTEN just a rallying cry for rent seeking.
I left them out because, IME, the ads portraying men as dolts tend to be for laundry detergent, food products for regular meals, cleaning products, etc. those associated with traditionally feminine chores. Those were examples of chores men are shown as ‘too dumb’ to do, which is a shame for both men and women.
If you would like to get into specifics, mowing the lawn, raking the leaves, shoveling the snow, painting the window frames, trimming the shrubbery, cleaning the gutters, and trimming around the sidewalks don’t enter the equation if a couple lives in a yard-free apartment (and even painting or fixing a leaky faucet if they’ve got a good condo board). Washing the car doesn’t count if they haven’t got a car (same for diapers if they never have a child). The chores you mentioned are also seasonal and/or occasional, unlike preparing meals, doing laundry, dishes, etc.
Not that it matters, but my current SO is a cooking, cleaning machine. And a feminist.
“Men” are not in a “power position”. Men are not a unified group. No one is going to rescue or subsidize me because I’m a man.
SOME men are powerful. That benefits the average man not at all.
As for feminism being anti-male, it certainly looks that way. “Feminist” no longer means someone who supports women’s rights or equality; primarily, it means a woman who loathes men. That’s why so few women call themselves feminists, even when they believe everything that feminism is supposed to be about. I would never assume that a woman who calls herself a feminist supports equal rights, nor that a woman who refuses to call herself a feminist opposes equal rights; the two terms have no connection.
Sorry feminists. You went and let yourself get defined as manhaters; they were the loudest, and whether they are the majority or not, they have been your public face for decades. People who say that letting people die in fires is just the price we have to pay for letting women be firefighters ( like Gloria Allred ), are female partisans, not promoters of equality.
And while catsix is a little hostile ( yes, I do recognize our similarity in style ), she seems to be pretty accurate so far. I recall most of what she accuses the feminists of doing, and she certainly predicted her opponent’s behavior well enough.
Pretty standard. As I recall, those studies that claim that women do much more housework than men simply don’t count traditional male chores because they aren’t inside the house.
I love men. Certain ones, of course, but generally, I fucking love men. But if one jumped to conclusions based on the fact that I am a feminist (and they have, usually with a few fun homophobic slurs), then… not so much.
I can’t believe they did that! Arrrghh! And just when they were in control of the world’s media, too! Also, I had no idea that Rush Limbaugh was a manhater.
Cite?
Part of the fun reading this thread is the banner ads along the bottom: “Mature women”, “Dating tips for men”, “Make him fall in love with you”.
Synchronicity, where is thy sting?
We may not have the ability to say who is doing more work aroundthe home, but we do have some idea who’s getting hurt more
There are plenty of women who shovel snow and push lawnmowers and climb ladders to muck out gutters, but either the guys do it more often (since, as we all know, a man can withold sex & pleasant companionship as a persuader as effectivley as a woman - right? Right?) and thereby face higher risk, or, as the TV ads would have it, are just too stupid to do it without getting hurt.
Oh, but that’s fine, because men are all dominant or something, so that makes it okay.