# Men Choosing to Disengage from Emotional Involvement with Women (... and Bears) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 16, 2024, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627 "2024-05-16T10:50:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/41 "2024-05-16T16:01:15Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Should people label her a female incel I don’t think that’s a term people use. She is free t do what she wants. We’re free to say she’s perhaps “misguided.” But becoming a nun for those reasons seems to lack the public complaining part that I associate with incels. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/42 "2024-05-16T16:03:34Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t think that’s a term people use. She is free t do what she wants. We’re free to say she’s perhaps “misguided.” But becoming a nun for those reasons seems to lack the public complaining part that I associate with incels So if she posted on a public forum like this one, she would be crossing the line into public complaining. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/43 "2024-05-16T16:04:02Z")
Plus the “incel” term didn’t just come up out of the rocks, it was a term self-applied by bitter dudes on Reddit. There was never a real female component to it aside from “Them damn women…” So it never really became a term for relationship-less women. Granted, we already had numerous disparaging terms for single women out of their 20s anyway: Old maid, cat lady, man hater, yadda yadda. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/44 "2024-05-16T16:09:24Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Would it bother you if a woman chose to become a nun and join a convent after a disappointing relationship? You quoted a part of my post, but I’m legitimately wondering whether you read the post you quoted. I am certain that my answer to this question is abundantly clear from the examples I gave. Please read them again, and then if you’re still confused, explain why. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/45 "2024-05-16T16:11:43Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > So if she posted on a public forum like this one, she would be crossing the line into public complaining. Yes, that’s public complaining. But it would depend on what she says. As with men, there are plenty of perfectly legitimate and understandable reasons to decide to avoid dating. All we know of your hypothetical is she “chose to become a nun and join a convent after a disappointing relationship.” That seems far short of the obnoxious behavior of incels. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/46 "2024-05-16T16:18:16Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Plus the “incel” term didn’t just come up out of the rocks, it was a term self-applied by bitter dudes on Reddit. There was never a real female component to it aside from “Them damn women…” So it never really became a term for relationship-less women. If we’re talking about incels, it’s worth remembering that the term was coined by a woman: > **[The woman who founded the 'incel' movement](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45284455)** > > When Alana started a website for lonely people struggling to find love, she had no idea where it would lead. But originally it just referred to what it’s literally short for: people who were involuntarily celibate. That’s a perfectly legitimate thing to be sad about, and it’s perfectly fine for people to talk about that, and to commiserate with others about it, and to look for strategies to end a state of affairs that they don’t like. What we think of as “incels” today is something very different: it’s when men blame women as a group for their lack of sex. It’s super gross, it’s unhealthy, and it’s dangerous. I don’t think the OP is doing exactly that. But he’s also not taking personal responsibility for his lack of a love life. Instead, he’s blaming a society in which relationships are “utterly poisoned.” That’s not nearly as bad as what incels do, but it’s still messed up. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/47 "2024-05-16T16:27:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If we’re talking about incels, it’s worth remembering that the term was coined by a woman Good to know. Incels invented by a woman, Man & Bear invented by a man… what IS this world coming to? ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/48 "2024-05-16T16:30:39Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What we think of as “incels” today is something very different: it’s when men blame women as a group for their lack of sex. It’s super gross, it’s unhealthy, and it’s dangerous. > > I don’t think the OP is doing exactly that. But he’s also not taking personal responsibility for his lack of a love life. Instead, he’s blaming a society in which relationships are “utterly poisoned.” That’s not nearly as bad as what incels do, but it’s still messed up. He is taking responsibility for his lack of a love life, because he’s voluntarily withdrawing. Whenever we are between partners, we have to do certain things to change that typically. Then he reads about man/woman/bear and other material about all of these bad interactions, and it’s taken the fun out of it. (My take anyway.) Now the term “incel” is also thrown at men involuntarily by women for various reasons. As an insult, “you can’t get laid” or whatever. So it’s not simply applied by bitter men to themselves. It’s applied to men against their will. Which is more or less happening here. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/50 "2024-05-16T16:32:03Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > He is taking responsibility for his lack of a love life, because he’s voluntarily withdrawing. Again, I’m unconvinced that you’re reading what you’re quoting. ---
**Author:** ![Moonrise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonrise/32/14764_2.png) [@Moonrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonrise)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/51 "2024-05-16T16:34:55Z")
Sorry, I won’t be able to answer all of the posts that this thread has already generated. > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I don’t see what that has to do with the reactions of women who are strangers, and why you should take it personally. Is it that you don’t believe that many women have had traumatic encounters with strange men? I know it is the case. I may be too sensitive about this, sure. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Is this all you’re saying It is, as uninteresting as it might be. I don’t claim that other men should do as I do, just that I’m not surprised when they do. > [@BigT](#): > > You can decide that dating is too much work for you personally, but that’s not the same thing. Because then you realize the issue is you, and are not blaming women for daring to want to be treated equally. I’m certainly not blaming all women for wanting something that should be so obvious, although I am blaming some of the ones I’ve known for some of the things they’ve done. And it’s not that dating is too much work per se that’s the problem, it is the fact that we’re all too quick to react to perceived red flags even when there are none, and in the process hurt people who sincerely meant no harm. On and on and on. > [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > Who is this woman that speaks for us all? I shouldn’t have talked about her. She’s a colleague with whom I’ve had several interesting discussions. We disagree on pretty much everything but she’s smart and her opinions are well-informed by experience. She most definitely doesn’t claim to speak for all women. And just to be clear, there’s no subtext of possible romantic relationship. She has a boyfriend, is much too young for me and has opinions that I cannot share. > [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > But women who hurt your feelings by acting afraid of you might just possibly have it worse than you do. I am aware of this. > [@RitterSport](#): > > I would never consider shutting out more than 50% of the population because some men are terrible to women. I am definitely going to keep on engaging with women from professional, intellectual and generally human points of view because I still have so much to learn from them in these respects. Just not romantically, unless I stumble upon someone truly special and we miraculously manage not to let our past trauma poison whatever good might happen (not holding my breath). > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Straight men who shut themselves out from that are, IMO, missing out on the best feelings in the world (and I’m not talking about sex). I completely agree with your point, but the risk of potential harm, both for women and myself, that seems to come from building a healthy relationship currently outweighs them. > [@griffin1977](#): > > If he’s saying he’s given up on romantic relationships because he’s had numerous romantic relationships end in terrible hurtful ways that weren’t his fault. Not going to argue with you there, we’ve all had that happen, and known loads of people who’ve gone through that\* I can totally sympathize with someone who says “screw it I’m done”, after been chewed up and spat out by yet another relationship". This. > [@griffin1977](#): > > you are deciding to disengage emotionally because it bugs you that women are (justifiably) scared of men. Women are justifiably afraid of men for all sorts of unfortunately real and legitimate reasons. But I’ve had several relationships end because the women involved had trust issues due to past experiences that they could not overcome. ‘Sorry, you did everything right but…’ And the pattern is continuing, now. Many send extremely confusing signals because of past trauma I had zero influence on, leading me to suspect they’re playing because of my own bad experiences. Then, potential new relationships enter a death spiral. It’s just not worth it. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Stop right there. This isn’t a game, and there aren’t two sides. There are a little more than 8 billion sides at last count. #Notallwomen are bigoted against men or afraid of all men; #notallmen are bigoted against women or toxic toward women. Fair enough. Bad choice of words on my part. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That one woman you’re talking about sounds like someone I’d want to keep a good distance from; and if I somehow ended up on a date with her, there wouldn’t be a second date. But last I checked, your colleague isn’t part of the WIMMIN HIVEMIND. She wasn’t elected as spokeswoman for all women. She doesn’t set female international policy. She’s just one schmoe with an opinion. I’ve already addressed this above. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That’s suggesting that I, and other guys who _don’t_ disengage from the women in our lives, aren’t being smart. When you say that “that the topic of relationships is utterly poisoned,” you’re telling me that my loving marriage of 21 years is “utterly poisoned,” and that’s just flat-out wrong. Good point. Let’s say that disengaging totally from emotional involvement is the only smart thing to do _for me (and hopefully at the moment, who knows)_. > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > It frankly sounds like another Incel’s lament, not the usual 20-something living in the parents’ basement, but a born-again Incel who finds middle age has added to his other issues in appealing to women, so he has picked up his marbles (such as they are) and is heading home. It is really sad if I come across like this but I understand where you’re coming from. I’m pretty sure that I’m neurodivergent in some ways. When I was younger, that didn’t prevent me from having success with women because I happened to look good, could hold a conversation, make them laugh and most importantly make them feel safe and respected. But I also remember many being put off and finding me ‘vaguely weird’. Perhaps this aspect is taking over as my looks and my wit are slowly fading away. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/52 "2024-05-16T16:35:46Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Then he reads about man/woman/bear and other material about all of these bad interactions, and it’s taken the fun out of it. (My take anyway.) You know what else takes all the fun out of it? Getting sexually assaulted. (My take anyway). I’m _so_ sorry if hearing about this stuff bothers some men (I’m not), but _as_ a man, I am much more concerned about the harmful shit that is actually done to women, rather than the jnnocent men who nevertheless get offended or upset when this stuff is talked about. Their discomfort does not outweigh the actual harm being done to women. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/53 "2024-05-16T16:35:47Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Again, I’m unconvinced that you’re reading what you’re quoting > [@Moonrise](#): > > I have seen the fearful, furtive glances when I come across them in the streets. I have seen them quickly change places when I sit down less than 5 meters away from them. I know they’re afraid. And I’ve felt hurt every time this has happened. Since carefully minding my words, my movements and my gaze haven’t proved sufficient, avoidance is the only way to be sure that I’m not a nuisance to them. And that I don’t get metaphorically hit again ‘just in case’. > > That doesn’t mean I will turn a blind eye to the very legitimate concerns that women have. Or that I will not engage with them at all. > > As a matter of fact, I was talking with a colleague about this meme 3 days ago. She’s very opinionated when it comes to men, and her go-to answer for any issue is ‘toxic masculinity’. Yet, her arguments are solid and always worth listening to. I was pointing out the ways in which some men are genuinely trying to do better. She listened, nodded and said ‘I know, but that is not enough anymore’, gently banging her fist on her desk. So, I told her that this kind of discourse was the very reason I had decided to disengage emotionally. She looked genuinely pained, while I was puzzled how she could not see that it was a perfectly predictable consequence of the gridlock. What else can you do when listening, learning and trying to do better all your life is deemed ‘not enough’ ? > > I’m turning 50 at the end of the year. I’ve been lucky in having more women in my life than most men. One whom I was married to for over 15 years, four who shared my life for several years each, and many others I was more briefly involved with. I have two wonderful daughters. I’ve learnt a lot for them all. They gave me both the most extatic and the most humiliating experiences of my life. I’m completely at peace with the idea of being alone. I’ve had a full romantic life. Not the one that I had hoped for, but full nonetheless. You find “incel” in there for me then. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/54 "2024-05-16T16:38:14Z")
> [@Moonrise](#): > > Good point. > > Let’s say that disengaging totally from emotional involvement is the only smart thing to do _for me (and hopefully at the moment, who knows)_. With this change in wording, I have no problem at all with what you’re saying–and as I said above, I genuinely want you to have a happy and fulfilling life, with or without romantic relationships. > [@Jay\_Z](#): > > You find “incel” in there for me then. You, on the other hand, have got to be kidding me. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/55 "2024-05-16T16:38:35Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > You find “incel” in there for me then. Where did **LHoD** say the OP was an incel? ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/56 "2024-05-16T16:41:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Where did **LHoD** say the OP was an incel I’m told that I’m not reading what I’m quoting. > [@Babale](#): > > You know what else takes all the fun out of it? Getting sexually assaulted. (My take anyway). > > I’m _so_ sorry if hearing about this stuff bothers some men (I’m not), but _as_ a man, I am much more concerned about the harmful shit that is actually done to women, rather than the jnnocent men who nevertheless get offended or upset when this stuff is talked about. > > Their discomfort does not outweigh the actual harm being done to women No one is arguing this. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/57 "2024-05-16T16:42:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Where did **LHoD** say the OP was an incel? Maybe in this bit, _that he quoted_? > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What we think of as “incels” today is something very different: it’s when men blame women as a group for their lack of sex. It’s super gross, it’s unhealthy, and it’s dangerous. > > **I don’t think the OP is doing exactly that.** (emphasis added) Oh wait hold up: that’s me saying exactly the opposite–again, in a passage that he quoted. When I said I didn’t think he was reading what he quoted, he responded by quoting something different and challenging me to find “incel” in the different thing. I’m worried it’s performance art. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/58 "2024-05-16T16:42:22Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > I’m told that I’m not reading what I’m quoting. I mean, that very much does appear to be that case, based on your responses. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/59 "2024-05-16T16:42:54Z")
> [@Moonrise](#): > > It is because there’s so much fear and bigotery on both sides that it is a losing game. I know quite a few people who appear to have won it. I didn’t win it, and quit; but that wasn’t because of fear and bigotry. It’s because I decided that I’m both an unusual taste and a late starter, and that by the time I was ready to get married the people I actually might have married had generally already gotten married and were staying that way. And not having married doesn’t mean that I don’t have male friends who I trust; which I do. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This isn’t a game, and there aren’t two sides. There are a little more than 8 billion sides at last count. Also a very good point. > [@Moonrise](#): > > I have seen the fearful, furtive glances when I come across them in the streets. I have seen them quickly change places when I sit down less than 5 meters away from them. I’m not sure what situations you’re getting these reactions in, and I don’t know how you’re presenting yourself. All I can say is that I don’t see this when people are ordinarily walking around the streets here, or when somebody sits down at the next table in a restaurant or in the library or whatever. It probably varies depending on where you are, and also on whether you’re picking the closest possible seat in an otherwise empty waiting area, and things of that sort. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s rather strong language against a pretty defensible position given how poisoned relations between the genders are. They’re not any more poisoned than they ever were. The difference is that now the women are talking about it in public. And they were never poisoned between all women and all men; and aren’t now. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > it _demonstrates_ how poisoned relations are that a desire to avoid people who fear and hate you gets labeled “incredibly dumb” It wasn’t originally phrased as a desire to avoid people who fear and hate you. It was originally phrased as an intention to have no emotional involvement with women at all. The OP is apparently emotionally involved with his daughters, and quite possibly with other women. He’s just decided, at 50, to stop actively pursuing romantic connections. I think his reasoning for doing so is somewhat flawed; but I don’t think it’s dumb. I do think that, if he wants, he could find connections in situations that are reassuring to the women. I also think that if somebody’s afraid of you on a deserted street, that doesn’t mean that they hate you. > [@BigT](#): > > The first is that this woman saying that what men are currently doing is “not enough” isn’t sufficient on its own to lead to the conclusion “I might as well not try.” You are assuming an additional premise. You appear to be assuming “Nothing men can ever do will ever be enough.” But it seems highly unlikely she believes this. This. She’s talking with you, isn’t she? Did you ask her what she thinks you can do? Did you consider that what she was saying might not be that you personally hadn’t done enough about your own behavior, but that men in general need to also work on improving the behavior of other men, and not enough of them are doing so? > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > But it is? _They_ are not “men” and have no power over what _other_ men do, so if the problem is what “men” are doing then there’s nothing that they as an individual man can do about it. They could become a paragon and it wouldn’t change anything. If enough of these paragons also speak up to other men and boys, it would help. Some actually do. We need more to do so. And again: a whole lot of people do find good relationships. So to present the whole situation as hopeless strikes me as inaccurate. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As well as watching how relationships crashing and burning appears to be the norm rather than the exception. Not what I’ve been seeing. I’ve been seeing that both lasting relationships and those that don’t last are entirely normal; and that the ones that don’t last often fail for reasons having nothing to do with one partner being afraid of the other or one (or both) deliberately mistreating the other, but just due to a mismatch to start with or to a mismatch that occurs later because of people maturing in different directions. > [@Jay\_Z](#): > > I know I have read of surveys where men and women look at pictures of women and men respectively. And the women record fewer numbers of men they find attractive than the men do women. How people react to pictures has little or nothing to do with how they react to people they’ve gotten to know. > [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Would it bother you if a woman chose to become a nun and join a convent after a disappointing relationship? If that were her only reason for becoming a nun, yes. If she were a devout follower of the religion in question, then no. But in either case it would bother me if she said she were becoming a nun because all relationships with men were essentially poisonous. – @Moonrise’s post #51 clarifies some of his meaning. I’m leaving the above, written as I read through the thread, partly as a response to others. ---
**Author:** ![Moonrise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonrise/32/14764_2.png) [@Moonrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonrise)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/60 "2024-05-16T16:48:45Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I know quite a few people who appear to have won it. And I’m sincerely happy for them. You know, I still get teary-eyed when I see some of those cheesy marriage proposal videos… > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > whether you’re picking the closest possible seat in an otherwise empty waiting area, and things of that sort. I’ve always been ultra careful not to do that. I also overtake women as quickly as I can if I happen to be walking behind one in an otherwise empty street, leaving ample room between us while doing so. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I’m… an unusual taste Stealing this. It describes me well. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627/61 "2024-05-16T17:03:22Z")
I’d just like to offer my experiences, if anyone cares. I’m obviously as bias as anyone, so if there’s faulty logic, please inform me. I’m not completely celibate, but I simply have a difficult time dealing with finding physical female partners that I’m into enough to risk anything that might happen after sex. I’m also not exactly the most sexually charged dude out there, as far as I can tell. I’m 5"5’ and, as far as I know, I don’t give off scary or threatening vibes to the same degree some other guys may be giving off. I have a soft voice. I’m very non aggressive. If I were to be sharing an elevator alone with a gal, first thing I do is establish that I wont be a treat, in some mild way. My experience is that SOME women really don’t find that as appealing as maybe someone who gives off more “edgy” vibes. I mean, that’s cool and all, we all have our preferences, myself included. I’ve been hurt a lot and taken advantage of by women I’ve pursued a relationships with in the past, so lately I just don’t care. That said, women for sure have it worse and have to worry about their literal lives, so… I’m not complaining at all, I think I ‘get it’. I’m just stating why I’m personally “disengaged”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-choosing-to-disengage-from-emotional-involvement-with-women-and-bears/1001627.md?page=4)