# Men going their own way (MGTOW) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022 "2015-06-20T19:21:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/1 "2015-06-20T19:21:49Z")
So I heard about this phenomenon in the context of another thread and decided to find out what it was. I’ve only just started, so feel free to add comments or info or whatever. So far what I’ve found out: They really really hate marriage. For example, I’m already excluded for being married to a woman. (If i was married to a man, it’d be OK? Don’t know.) They also hate women - I think. I haven’t actually read that ‘officially’. Just judging from some prominent quotes: “Girls are a nightmare.” There’s also something called the “sexodus”. I haven’t quite figured out what that is yet. I came across it in this paragraph: > [@](#): > > We can be quite sure now that the sexodus is not some fringe, isolated internet movement as “Men Going Their Own Way” has sometimes been characterised. A combination of disastrous social engineering, special privileges for women, the relentless mockery of white men on the basis of their sex and skin colour and the economic and educational abandonment for boys has created one, if not two, lost generations already. This is their official statement: > [@](#): > > M.G.T.O.W – Men Going Their Own Way is a statement of self-ownership, where the modern man preserves and protects his own sovereignty above all else. It is the manifestation of one word: “No”. Ejecting silly preconceptions and cultural definitions of what a “man” is. Looking to no one else for social cues. Refusing to bow, serve and kneel for the opportunity to be treated like a disposable utility. And, living according to his own best interests in a world which would rather he didn’t. Not very informative, but interesting, in its own way. I can’t quote it, because it’s pictures, [but this seems to be a pretty good summary](http://www.mgtow.com/posters/) of what they’re on about. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/2 "2015-06-20T19:26:24Z")
So… they’re MRAs. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/3 "2015-06-20T19:32:04Z")
Hmm, if they were really going their _own_ way, they wouldn’t need a website telling them how. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/4 "2015-06-20T19:35:16Z")
I see the He-Man Woman-Hater’s Club is still with us. ETA: Thanks for the Fleetwood Mac earworm. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/5 "2015-06-20T19:43:09Z")
I’d say this [Urban Dictionary](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=MGTOW&defid=7075960) definition pretty well nails it. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/6 "2015-06-20T19:56:04Z")
It sounds like that stupid men’s movement of 20 years ago or so–the one where men sat in a drum circle and pretended to be at one with nature or some bullshit like that. Also what **Jragon** said. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/7 "2015-06-20T20:03:08Z")
A longer quote (sorry). > [@](#): > > In schools today across Britain and America, boys are relentlessly pathologised, as academics were warning as long ago as 2001. Boyishness and boisterousness have come to be seen as “problematic,” with girls’ behaviour a gold standard against which these defective boys are measured. When they are found wanting, the solution is often drugs. > > One in seven American boys will be diagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) at some point in their school career. Millions will be prescribed a powerful mood stabiliser, such as Ritalin, for the crime of being born male. The side effects of these drugs can be hideous and include sudden death. > > Meanwhile, boys are falling behind girls academically, perhaps because relentless and well-funded focus has been placed on girls’ achievement in the past few decades and little to none on the boys who are now achieving lower grades, fewer honors, fewer degrees and less marketable information economy skills. Boys’ literacy, in particular, is in crisis throughout the West. We’ve been obsessing so much over girls, we haven’t noticed that boys have slipped into serious academic trouble. > > So what happened to those boys who, in 2001, were falling behind girls at school, were less likely to go to college, were being given drugs they did not need and whose self-esteem and confidence issues haven’t just been ignored, but have been actively ridiculed by the feminist Establishment that has such a stranglehold on teaching unions and Left-leaning political parties? > > In short: they grew up, dysfunctional, under-served by society, deeply miserable and, in many cases, entirely unable to relate to the opposite sex. It is the boys who were being betrayed by the education system and by culture at large in such vast numbers between 1990 and 2010 who represent the first generation of what I call the sexodus, a large-scale exit from mainstream society by males who have decided they simply can’t face, or be bothered with, forming healthy relationships and participating fully in their local communities, national democracies and other real-world social structures. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/8 "2015-06-20T20:28:22Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > I can’t quote it, because it’s pictures, [but this seems to be a pretty good summary](http://www.mgtow.com/posters/) of what they’re on about. “Fart Rape?” ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/9 "2015-06-20T20:31:11Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > “Fart Rape?” I see a band name! ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/10 "2015-06-20T21:22:17Z")
I will say this about the boys and school thing: At my friends’ daughter’s school, a popular game is “See who can be quiet longest.” I assume this is a game promoted by the teachers, since I can’t imagine children coming up with it. Anywho, if what’s prized most in school is sitting still and being quiet, it’s easy how a proclivity for running, climbing, exploring, breaking things, and wrestling with your friends could wind up getting you labelled as a problem. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/11 "2015-06-20T21:43:14Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > I will say this about the boys and school thing: At my friends’ daughter’s school, a popular game is “See who can be quiet longest.” I assume this is a game promoted by the teachers, since I can’t imagine children coming up with it. > > … I can place this “game” in the 1950’s. Sorry: No “Shocking new deprivation” being inflicted on the poor, long-suffering male. Can’t get a date? Get on the Web and define yourself as a role model. Having a global platform open to all does have its drawbakcs. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/12 "2015-06-20T21:50:00Z")
Running, climbing, exploring, breaking things, and wrestling has _never_ been allowed in schools, even back when girls weren’t much allowed in schools, either. School has always been about sitting your ass down or getting your ass beaten until you can’t stand up. We’ve stopped beating students who disrupt class - and you can thank feminists for that, by the way - but that doesn’t mean that children who run, climb, break things and wrestle are going to get the gold star. OT: As a feminist and a woman, I encourage these men to go their own way. You go, guys. Vaya con dios, motherfuckers. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/13 "2015-06-20T21:57:44Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > It sounds like that stupid men’s movement of 20 years ago or so–the one where men sat in a drum circle and pretended to be at one with nature or some bullshit like that. . . . At least that was relatively benign. The drumming was cathartic, the male-bonding was usually genial, and so long as “oneness with nature” includes “not littering,” it’s already a step up from most of the human race. This version, filled with hate and blame, is not benign and doesn’t sound at all genial. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/14 "2015-06-20T22:06:30Z")
I think what we are seeing is inevitable in today’s society. As to be expected we are seeing a giant identity crisis. Man evolved around a small village or town where he had a much better chance at distinguishing himself at something. It is part of the mating strategy of men to acquire and keep a mate. ``` We simply lack the opportunities to find someway to distinguish ourselves. Many men do succeed at this and enjoy the consequences. For those of us who were not successful at accomplishing this through a profession our best bet is to find a source outside of work where we might. Activities that involve creativity and social interaction are especially effective at combating this and helping us to feel more defined and vital as a human being. ``` ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/15 "2015-06-20T22:45:01Z")
If you allow your self-worth to be determined by your bank balance, you have already lost the game. If you allow your self-worth to be determined by how many men want to hump you, you have lost (that is primarily directed toward the female, am not qualified to speak to others). Both groups of whiners have now been heard from. On behalf of 95% of the population: Thank you for sharing. Now sit down and shut the fuck up! Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/16 "2015-06-20T23:00:26Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > This version, filled with hate and blame, is not benign and doesn’t sound at all genial. So, maybe it should be understood instead of dismissed as a crowd of basement-dwelling losers that can’t get girlfriends? There are legitimate points in there. That girls are outpacing boys educationally is undeniable. Lots of human cultures in the past have had some kind of “opt out” system (various “third genders”, etc.) that probably acted as a kind of strain relief for individuals that couldn’t or wouldn’t stay within the mainstream. Maybe society can acknowledge that not being in a relationship is not a sign that you’re a defective person, and that maybe people can have other useful qualities. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/17 "2015-06-20T23:17:05Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I think what we are seeing is inevitable in today’s society. As to be expected we are seeing a giant identity crisis. Man evolved around a small village or town where he had a much better chance at distinguishing himself at something. It is part of the mating strategy of men to acquire and keep a mate. > > ``` > We simply lack the opportunities to find someway to distinguish ourselves. Many men do succeed at this and enjoy the consequences. For those of us who were not successful at accomplishing this through a profession our best bet is to find a source outside of work where we might. Activities that involve creativity and social interaction are especially effective at combating this and helping us to feel more defined and vital as a human being. > > ``` How about distinguishing yourself by being a good human being - that would really be rare and unusual. I can’t speak for women, but as a gay man I am most strongly attracted to men who are decent and responsible. As well as for a spouse, I would think those would also be good qualities for a male parent (necessary, although not sufficient by themselves). There are a couple of things in the manifesto that I actually agree with, although probably not for the same reasons they were written: not following “silly preconceptions and cultural definitions” of what a man is; and “living according to his own best interests” (what those best interests are is naturally a matter of debate). Otherwise, it sounds like a bunch of white guys who bemoan the fact that they have lost some of their privileges. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/18 "2015-06-20T23:48:11Z")
Soooo…Some misogynists formed a club that glorifies… what. The inability to find a ‘girl’? Nice guys always come in last. :rolleyes: Uhhu. Same old shit. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/19 "2015-06-20T23:54:24Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Otherwise, it sounds like a bunch of white guys who bemoan the fact that they have lost some of their privileges. I think part of it is that the privileges went away but the cultural expectations didn’t. It’s not really a problem if you’re already doing well for yourself. If not, it’s a pretty harsh dose of reality. Even today, men are basically expected to be the breadwinners. They work more hours and they work higher paying jobs. But with a huge chunk of undereducated men coming down the pipe, and an economy that can’t employ these people, that’s no longer reasonable. I kinda wonder if a similar trend will happen for homosexuals, but with a time lag. Will gay marriage change from a possibility to an expectation? I can see it happening eventually. If so, we’ll probably see a noisy contingent of people saying that gay marriage was a devil’s bargain, forcing them into unsustainable relationships focused on expensive and undesirable things like houses and kids. Once, homosexuality was liberating and free of most cultural baggage, and now it’s been homogenized with the rest of society. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/20 "2015-06-21T00:08:19Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > So, maybe it should be understood instead of dismissed as a crowd of basement-dwelling losers that can’t get girlfriends? Sure…but, then, the group referred to in the OP should also be practicing understanding and not “othering” and demonizing. > [@](#): > > There are legitimate points in there. That girls are outpacing boys educationally is undeniable. It’s all in how you approach it. I see girls’ progress in education as a good thing, reversing trends that have been manifest for millennia. It doesn’t have to be a zero-sum game. If the solution is to emphasize boys’ education to restore parity, then that’s fine. If the solution is do condemn girls who achieve educational success, then you’ve made a lifelong enemy here. > [@](#): > > Lots of human cultures in the past have had some kind of “opt out” system (various “third genders”, etc.) that probably acted as a kind of strain relief for individuals that couldn’t or wouldn’t stay within the mainstream. > > Maybe society can acknowledge that not being in a relationship is not a sign that you’re a defective person, and that maybe people can have other useful qualities. Agreed. All very well and good. Just don’t phrase it in a condemnatory fashion. “I’m fine on my own.” Great. Glad to hear it. “Woman have been unfair to me.” Belt it, ya loser. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022.md?page=2)