# Men going their own way (MGTOW) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022 "2015-06-20T19:21:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/441 "2015-06-26T15:37:03Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > That can be true. But a clue when it’s being used is if an avowed feminist uses the term “girlie.” And “This is rubbish.” ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/442 "2015-06-26T20:00:25Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Increasing numbers of men are doing it, but it’s still not an expectation as it with women. Obviously I’m speaking from my own viewpoint, from my own particular niche in society, and there’s no doubt cultural expectations vary from culture to culture. But I can’t imagine any of my friends - male or female - saying “housework is women’s work”. I’ve never heard any of them say that. Now, some people are slobs and some aren’t. (Or, conversely, some people are neatniks and some aren’t.) And it wouldn’t surprise me if more women - on average - cared more about what their home looked like than men. But I don’t know it’s a sexism issue. I do more cleaning, because if I don’t do it, it doesn’t get done. My sister - who’s married to a woman - does more housework as well. I suspect for the same reason. Anyway, it’s not like it’s a cosmic issue. I’m just saying. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/443 "2015-06-26T20:44:09Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Obviously I’m speaking from my own viewpoint, from my own particular niche in society, and there’s no doubt cultural expectations vary from culture to culture. But I can’t imagine any of my friends - male or female - saying “housework is women’s work”. I’ve never heard any of them say that. It doesn’t have to be explicitly said for that message that is communicated. This messaging starts in childhood. Households where chores aren’t split down gender lines is a very recent phenomenon. Even in my fairly egalitarian childhood home, my brother was taught to do yard work and take out the trash. My sisters and I were trained to do everything else. My brother was allowed to keep his room a pig-sty. Us girls were expected to keep our rooms much tidier. > [@](#): > > Anyway, it’s not like it’s a cosmic issue. I’m just saying. I’m not sure what this means. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/444 "2015-06-26T22:40:21Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > It doesn’t have to be explicitly said for that message that is communicated. > > This messaging starts in childhood. Households where chores aren’t split down gender lines is a very recent phenomenon. Even in my fairly egalitarian childhood home, my brother was taught to do yard work and take out the trash. My sisters and I were trained to do everything else. My brother was allowed to keep his room a pig-sty. Us girls were expected to keep our rooms much tidier. When I was a kid, a common story line was a husband and wife swapping jobs around the house. The way this usually played out was the woman could do the man’s job easily, but the man was a total klutz, wrecking everything, unable to cook, etc., etc. Sounds like pro-woman - but the real message was that men were excused from housework, since the end was the woman taking her job back over. Even today when my wife is away people ask me all the time if I need help in cooking, which is funny since my father came from a restaurant family, ran a lunch counter, and when first married taught my mother how to cook. But there is an assumption still it is woman’s work. Do women get told in this kind of way that it is okay and expected if they can’t do mechanical things? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/445 "2015-06-26T23:05:12Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Do women get told in this kind of way that it is okay and expected if they can’t do mechanical things? Absolutely, everyone is amazed that I can do basic repairs and maintenance on my car. (Um, I’ve just been working on cars since I was like eight). What’s really annoying is the people that think this is because my husband or brothers neglected to help me with car problems. No, It’s not that they won’t help me it’s that they are forbidden to touch my car. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/446 "2015-06-26T23:13:18Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > When I was a kid, a common story line was a husband and wife swapping jobs around the house. The way this usually played out was the woman could do the man’s job easily, but the man was a total klutz, wrecking everything, unable to cook, etc., etc. > Sounds like pro-woman - but the real message was that men were excused from housework, since the end was the woman taking her job back over. > > Even today when my wife is away people ask me all the time if I need help in cooking, which is funny since my father came from a restaurant family, ran a lunch counter, and when first married taught my mother how to cook. But there is an assumption still it is woman’s work. > > Do women get told in this kind of way that it is okay and expected if they can’t do mechanical things? All I can say is that every “male” job is still a male job at my house: yard work, fixing things, putting things together, anything that involves tools, etc. Female jobs are supposed 50/50, but not really, because she really really hates cleaning. 🙂 To be fair, she does do the laundry. The deal was, she’d do the laundry if I did the dishes. She really hates dishes, and I hate laundry. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/447 "2015-06-28T01:54:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **jz** , perhaps I’ve confused you with someone else but if I remember right you’ve posted here before about having problems dating and relating to women, right? And you’ve been single for a long time? However, you don’t seem to be blaming your problems on a subtle conspiracy against men or a deep-seated problem in modern society. What’s your secret, man? this is pretty nosy and intrusive, if you don’t mind me saying so. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/448 "2015-06-28T02:04:47Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > this is pretty nosy and intrusive, if you don’t mind me saying so. He’s only referring to things you’ve chosen to share with everyone here before. I’m confused as to the intrusiveness. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/449 "2015-06-28T03:12:56Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > He’s only referring to things you’ve chosen to share with everyone here before. I’m confused as to the intrusiveness. was I speaking to you? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/450 "2015-06-28T03:19:07Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > was I speaking to you? You were posting on a public messageboard. If you intended for your remarks to be private, they should have been made via private message. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/451 "2015-06-28T04:37:54Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > was I speaking to you? You were kinda speaking to all of us. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/452 "2015-06-28T04:47:48Z")
Hey, you talkin’ to me? Huh? Huh? You talkin’ to me? Yes. Oh, well, in that case, can you speak up a bit, and use shorter words? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/453 "2015-06-28T13:12:30Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > FWIW, sarcasm often translates poorly in the written form. **LinusK** in all seriousness and sincerity I suggest to you that your failure to understand the sarcasm in this remark would indicate that there is _a lot_ you have misunderstood when reading or listening to things feminists (and perhaps people in general…) have said. This failure to note ironic, sarcastic, or otherwise non-serious intent may mean you are getting an inaccurate picture of things. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/454 "2015-06-28T16:16:48Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > He’s only referring to things you’ve chosen to share with everyone here before. I’m confused as to the intrusiveness. Yeah, but an answer _would_ pretty likely have to include more personal information. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for **jz78817** to not want to discuss it. With that being said, though, **RNATB** is a decent guy, **jz78817** ; it sounds like his overall point was that a bunch of others (the MGTOWs) have similar experiences and reacted by becoming shitty and misogynistic, but – unlike them – you’re a good person . I think he would/will understand why you don’t want to answer. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/455 "2015-06-28T16:22:15Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > **LinusK** in all seriousness and sincerity I suggest to you that your failure to understand the sarcasm in this remark would indicate that there is _a lot_ you have misunderstood when reading or listening to things feminists (and perhaps people in general…) have said. This failure to note ironic, sarcastic, or otherwise non-serious intent may mean you are getting an inaccurate picture of things. Yes yes yes yesyesyesyesyesyesyes. **LinusK** , this is a very real possibility. A LOT of feminists (especially when posting/commenting casually as opposed to, say, writing an academic paper) use sarcasm, satire and whatnot. A LOT a lot. If this is the issue, then it’s potentially just an issue of misunderstanding/miscommunication. That’s good! ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/456 "2015-06-29T02:20:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **jz** , perhaps I’ve confused you with someone else but if I remember right you’ve posted here before about having problems dating and relating to women, right? And you’ve been single for a long time? However, you don’t seem to be blaming your problems on a subtle conspiracy against men or a deep-seated problem in modern society. What’s your secret, man?\ no, you know what? instead of being pithy (or just plain pissy) I’ll answer. I’m just not a social person. I don’t like the whole “going out and meeting people” thing. I’m extremely anxious and uncomfortable among groups of people I don’t know. throw me into a situation like that and I’ll look for the first opportunity to get away. I prefer quiet and being by myself. Which means the chances of me meeting someone I really like are slim to none. Can’t find that which you don’t look for. the difference between me and the dudebros we’re talking about is that _I don’t blame other people for this._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022.md?page=22)