# Men going their own way (MGTOW) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022 "2015-06-20T19:21:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/161 "2015-06-22T01:21:42Z")
> [@robertliguori](#): > > Of course, you can iterate that. Why call MGTOW losers who can’t get laid? That just means you won’t get taken seriously, and people will feel free to call you old, diseased, worthless harpies, and write off the good causes you advocate as in service to a bad movement with bad end goals. > > Or, we could just try to collectively condemn people who resort to insults and try to focus on actually sorting out good policy from bad. I’d prefer that, myself. I think the difference is that nobody is claiming that hating on losers who can’t get laid is an intergal part of some kind of movement. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/162 "2015-06-22T01:28:00Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Well, and it’s especially inept, because those ancestors were her ancestors too. Well no shit. But you know what I meant. Or do you want to score debate points by winning by showing me you don’t know what I meant and will defeat my non point? ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/163 "2015-06-22T01:35:27Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > 1. This is not the fault of feminists. In fact, feminists talk frequently about how gender stereotypes hurt everybody. > > This pressure from mainstream media’s portrayal of men’s social order is coming from other men who use it as a way to pressure girls into traditional marriage. Traditionally, men have benefited from this because it gives them a captive housekeeper and sex partner. If that’s not working any more, well, good. If you don’t want the pressure of traditional gender roles any more, take it up with the 700 club. > > 1. Regardless of the social message that is being sent to men, it pales next to the way that, for three thousand years, Western culture has been engineered to force women into having no other option for their survival but to acquire and serve men. > > It’s not a surprise that some men are bitter that the old ways don’t work for them any more. I’m not sure who those men are (probably Republicans) but MGTOW is not about turning back the clock. It’s about seeing the world the way it is, right now, and making the best possible choices for yourself, as a man. (According to them.) I can’t speak for them, of course, but as an example: they’re devoutly opposed to marriage. And they have no problem with getting laid outside the bonds of marriage: they just want to do it at the smallest cost possible. They are not the 700 Club. And they’re not trying to turn back any clock. So far as I can tell, they see the sexual revolution as the greatest thing that’s ever happened for men. > [@](#): > > Nonetheless, complaining that they are the victims here shows a shocking lack of historical perspective. They don’t consider themselves ‘victims’, and would - I think - consider being called a “victim” an insult. > [@](#): > > It’s not much different than the way Southerners complained about how uppity and dangerous black people were after their slavery status was imposed on them. > > They’re not using the subjunctive. They’re not talking hypothetically.,They’re talking literally about how feminism wants to impose servitude on them. It is to laugh. Hence, the laughter. The icon is not about feminism. It’s about marriage. Specifically, about how they see marriage: as a form of indentured servitude. > [@](#): > > The fact that they’re coupling it with the whole five-year-olf-running-away act just makes it funnier. “I’m going my own way! Really! Here I go! You can’t stop me. I’m leaving now. Ok, this time, I’m really going! I mean, it! Try and stop me! Really! Just try! I’m not kidding! GAWD, women are so mean for not stopping me! It’s so unfair!” > > See this is what I’m talking about, for the historical perspective. > > 1. You do realize that for every pic of a woman in that tank top, I can find you one of a man in similar misogynictic tank top? In other words, _who gives a shit?_ Nobody, apparently. > [@](#): > > 1. Secondly, these thousands of years of oppressing women didn’t stop forty years ago. **In our life times** , doctors have refused to give birth control to women unless their husbands approved? Landlords and banks have refused to deal with women unless their husbands or fathers were involved? People still argue that it’s impossible for a husband to rape his wife. > > And you want to whine to me about a goddamn tank top? Uh. #1 I wasn’t whining. I’m sorry that you think I was. Though I’m not sure where you got that idea. #2. If you want to punish men alive today for things other men did 100 years ago, be my guest. I’m guessing that the fact it’s both illogical and reprehensible won’t stop you. > [@](#): > > The only reason I have access to education, financing, legal protections is because of feminism. That’s the only reason my life with computers is possible. And there are still big chunks of this planet who think I should be beaten and enslaved or worse. I’m not sure that’s exactly an objective view of history, but I know you’re going to go on believing regardless, so it’s pointless to argue. > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, Dipshits going their own way tell me, to my face, that they want to get a “real” woman - from those very cultures where women are oppressed - someone who knows how to be a traditional wife. Get the fuck out, already. “Get in your face”? How did they do that, exactly? Did you turn on your computer, log on to the internet, click on a thread title “MGTOW”, and then click on links in that thread? If you’re that upset, maybe next time you shouldn’t do those things. > [@](#): > > It’s exactly the same thing in both cases. > > \*\*even sven - \*\*I’m glad you’re able to say what I want to say, only better. > > It’s a reaction to the last eight years of conservative partisanship over Barack Obama. Just as racism has been more open, lately. The same people who have been stoking racist white people’s anger also have a vested interest in stoking sexist anger ahead of Hilary’s run for president. It’s no coincidence that Breitbart has been supporting Gamergate all these months, for example. I’m going to tell you something: I voted for Hillary Clinton. When she lost I voted for Obama. And then I voted for him again. I love Barack Obama. I’d have his babies, if I wasn’t a man. Millions of other white men voted for Obama, besides me. And if (when) Hillary gets the nomination, I’ll vote for her. Hate Republicans? Yes, I loathe them. But blaming everything on white men alienates potential allies. (Not me. I’m going to vote how I vote regardless - but others.) The struggle is not white against black or men against women. It’s the very rich against everyone else I’ll say one other thing: there are millions of white men who have it worse than you do. There are millions of white men who have it worse than I do. Your race and gender do not define where you are on the social/economic ladder. As long as you keep thinking that way, you’re looking at the world with blinders on. > [@](#): > > It sucks, but we have to have this out, I guess. The good news is the tide is shifting on racism and sexism. They don’t stand up well to sunlight. > > Not only are you wrong, I don’t believe for a minute that you really have made any study of feminism at all. > > The main point, of course, is that while there are certainly women who want to see all men tarred and feathered, Wait a minute. Wasn’t that what I was just saying - you remember: the thing you said I was ‘wrong’ about? > [@](#): > > the majority of feminists disagree and disown them. I’d be curious to see that. You don’t have to show me a majority. How about just… 3? > [@](#): > > You don’t see us supporting them here, downplaying how toxic their message is and pretending like really, they have some good points, because you know, sometimes men wear mean t-shirts. I’m not sure what you’re saying here. The first time through, I think I just misread it. I thought you were saying you do downplay how toxic their message is. But now I think you’re saying you just don’t say anything about it, one way or the other. Because sometimes men wear mean t-shirts. Ok. > [@](#): > > Bullshit. They support patriarchal gender roles for women, where women are meant to keep house and wait on men. Actually, many of them would be perfectly happy to stay home, if someone else would go out and work all day for them. It’s just that, that’s not an option, if you’re a man. > [@](#): > > That’s why they talk about how much they hate Western women but love women from places like Japan and Thailand. They sound just like the Taliban, in that regard. They know exactly what the partriarchy means when it comes to imposing it on someone else. > > It’s only their own partriarchal responsibilities they’re complainging about - having a good job, a nice homw and so on. That’s the part they resent. > > The White Knighting claim - that’s not a rejection of tradtional gender roles. That’s just part of their stupid anti-Social Justice Warrior terminology. In their circles, calling someone a SJW is the same as the old “niggerlover” claim. It’s an attempt to threaten and shame someone into abandoning support for the enemy position. > > Yeah, you don’t agree, you just spend post after post defending them. I don’t know whether I agree with them or not. (I know they won’t have me, since I’m married.) I do think, if we’re going to talk about them, we should talk about **them**. Not something you just imagined in your head. > [@](#): > > The problem with your interpertation is threefold: > > 1. It’s not feminists who want men to protect women at all costs and put us on pedestals. Of course they do. Your response is, well, not TRUE feminists. The problem is, you don’t get to decide who the true feminists are. Of the 500 hundred million women (or whatever the number was) who went to see Titanic, how many loved the scene where the White Knight froze to death and slipped to the bottom of the sea while the Princess floated away on her raft? How many were (self-identified) feminists? > [@](#): > > 1. MGTOW blame feminists for imposing this ideal of men protecting women at all cost. Not true. They blame “patriarchy”. They blame feminists for taking advantage of it when it serves them, and rejecting it when it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > 1. MGOTW talk about this ideal of men protecting women and putting them on pedestals as a recent development that feminism has imposed on them. See above. > [@](#): > > Real history is full of men kicking women in the teeth every chance they get. The idea that men have all been living a preux chevaliers for the last three thousand years is risible. Even in the Victorian era, where high class women were put on pedestals, lower class women were still getting it in the shorts. You think the servants who scrubbed on their hands and knees - not allowed to own property, not allowed to make legal decisions, not allowed to get educated, not allowed to report if someone rapes them - you think men were sacrificing themselves for those women? > > Feminists are saying that we don’t need men to treat us like goddesses (something mose women never experienced anyway. ) Feminists are saying we want the same legal rights as the men have. Which legal rights are you referring to? > [@](#): > > It’s possible that the MGOTW are just raging morons who have no grasp of history, gender roles or social expectations. It’s also possible that they are malevolent, disingenuous, sexist fuckwits. > > Me, I’m thinking it’s both. Well, you’ve certainly done a thorough study of them. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/164 "2015-06-22T01:41:09Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Wow, I thought that thing about parades was good, but this bit is priceless: > When will Congress finally stand up to “Big Fallopian” and make conception without consent illegal? The good news is, there’s a male birth control “pill” (actually, not a pill but an injection into the scrotum) supposedly coming out in the next few years. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/165 "2015-06-22T02:43:56Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > The good news is, there’s a male birth control “pill” (actually, not a pill but an injection into the scrotum) supposedly coming out in the next few years. I have some even better news for you. There’s _already_ a safe, effective, affordable form of birth control available to men, and it has the added benefit of providing protection against sexually transmitted diseases. It’s called a condom, and it’s available without a prescription in a variety of fun colors and styles. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/166 "2015-06-22T02:45:53Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I think a lot of it depends on who you are, whether the police are sympathetic, how long it’s been. But no, I don’t think that getting thrown in rape just because a woman says so is a realistic danger. Yes, there are some false reports of rape, but considering the obstacles women face when they try to report assault/rape, as well as the fact that so many rapes go unreported or unprosecuted, I don’t think think it’s really worth your time to worry about this. The idea that a woman might get mad at you and on a whim have you carted off to jail…it’s a little ridiculous. It’s certainly not something I’ve worried about in my own life. But then, I’ve been married for 20+ years. Having said that, the Rolling Stone article (among others) where a woman blatantly lied, ruined a man’s life, and became a hero (to some) did give me pause. Especially in the aftermath, when the mainstream commentary on the incident consisted mainly of “_we shouldn’t let this one false allegation distract us from the fact that every other woman who claims she was raped is telling the truth._” The push to mangle the law of rape is also a concern. But overall I hear you. Aside from a handful of psychopaths, few women falsely cry rape. I still believe the justice system is the best place to determine whether somebody’s committed a crime, though, and I believe that “innocent until proven guilty” should get more respect than it generally does. And not just in rape cases - in all cases. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/167 "2015-06-22T03:06:04Z")
> [@robertliguori](#): > > Hey, monstro, how old are you? > > Because in the general case…well, you’ve got a group of people saying “Hey, sociological factors in greater soceity mean that our gender is being ill-treated.”, in varying degrees of angry, and you’ve got another group saying “Obviously they’re all homely virgins! Horribly uncool group! Everyone laugh at the horribly uncool group!”…is the second group really the kind of company you want to keep? > > Me, I think that Men should Keep Going In Roughly The Same Direction They’ve Been Going In For The History of the 20th Century, but I also think that if someone’s bringing up arguments and citations and you’re bringing up mockery and scorn, what you’re really saying is “I fear you.” You’re saying “I fear that you’re right, that you’re persuasive, that one day everyone will blink and wake up and realize that you’re right, and I fear this because I can’t go out and disprove your factual claims.” > > And there are factual claims there. Men are poorly served by the justice and educational systems compared to women. The benefits of affluent, well-connected fraternity brothers with MBAs do not notably trickle down to rural students majoring in Veterinary Science or Agriculture. And there is a socially-sanctioned degree of mockery of white men that there isn’t of others. > > If you think these issues aren’t really issues, well, go ahead and marshall your own citations and argue about them properly. But just pointing and laughing makes you look exactly like the people pointing and laughing at the humorless feminists 30 years ago. Quoted for truth. I particularly loathe the lumping-all-white-guys-together method of scorning them (white men). Guess what? The fact that some white guys have it really good means absolutely nothing to those who have it really really shitty. There’s no secret society where white guys share their toys. Back on topic: MGTOW seems to go out of its way to reject the idea that they’re whining about anything, or that they need help from anyone (other than, perhaps, each other). I’d hypothesize that comes from the “patriarchal” idea that men shouldn’t complain, or ask for help. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/168 "2015-06-22T03:24:45Z")
> [@robertliguori](#): > > And there are factual claims there. Men are poorly served by the justice and educational systems compared to women. The benefits of affluent, well-connected fraternity brothers with MBAs do not notably trickle down to rural students majoring in Veterinary Science or Agriculture. And there is a socially-sanctioned degree of mockery of white men that there isn’t of others. Can you expand on this please? I think there is an inequity in justice when it comes to race but not gender. With the exception of course being hot female teachers getting a slap on the wrist for boinking their students. And even then, it’s not that men aren’t getting what they deserve. It’s just that the women aren’t being punished properly. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/169 "2015-06-22T03:30:33Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > As far as the court system is concerned, there’s absolutely no other evidence necessary to convict a man of rape, other than the testimony of the accuser. Now maybe the jury will believe her, or maybe they won’t. > > This is bull shit. I can think of plenty of cases where women have falsely accused a man of rape, and then later to be found out to be full of shit. I also remember the media dragging these false accusers through the mud for doing so. You need to read what I wrote again: > [@](#): > > As far as the court system is concerned, there’s absolutely no other evidence necessary to convict a man of rape, other than the testimony of the accuser. **Now maybe the jury will believe her, or maybe they won’t**. I bolded the last sentence, for emphasis. In the interest of perfect clarity: _if the jury doesn’t believe her, the defendant will be acquitted_. If someone makes a false accusation, they’ve committed a crime. If they repeat the accusation, under oath, they’ve committed another, more serious crime (perjury). Having their name dragged through the mud _should be_ the least of their concerns. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/170 "2015-06-22T03:36:06Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Having said that, the Rolling Stone article (among others) where a woman blatantly lied, ruined a man’s life, and became a hero (to some) did give me pause. Which man was that? If you’re referring to “Drew”, the fraternity member accused of luring “Jackie” into a gang rape, his life wasn’t ruined because he [didn’t exist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rape_on_Campus#Existence_of_.22Drew.22) to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/171 "2015-06-22T03:44:09Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > I can’t speak for the police, because I’m not one. I will tell you a secret about police, though: many would prefer not to work, than to work. And not initiating a rape case is easier than initiating one. Blaming the courts system is easier than saying, “Hey, I was hoping to go home early today…” > > As far as the court system is concerned, there’s absolutely no other evidence necessary to convict a man of rape, other than the testimony of the accuser. Now maybe the jury will believe her, or maybe they won’t. > > But if you’re sitting in the defense chair, a 50/50 shot at spending the rest of your life in prison is not the chair you want to be sitting in. (Not that I’m saying it’s 50/50: the actual odds depend on the case, but in general, prosecutors enjoy better odds than that.) According to [RAINN](https://rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates), out of every 100 rapes, 32 get reported to police. Of those 32, that the police may or may not investigate (maybe they just want to clock out and go home, or they do investigate, and find an alibi or whatever) 7 lead to an arrest. Ok the police investigated at least those 7, and then 3 of those cases (of investigated, non-alibied suspects) are referred to the prosecutor for trial. Of those 3, 2 lead to conviction. Not bad, 2 of 3, right? Better than 50/50. No, 2 out of 100. It seems to me that there is more involved in sending a man to jail for rape than just “He did it! Send him to jail!” You said that as far as the court system goes, nothing else is required but the (convincing) say-so of the woman to convict a man of rape. Judging by the dropoffs in numbers as it goes through the system, it seems like there is a lot more involved. The entire process, I would think, would weed out a lot of false accusations. And I don’t think rape trials are usually strictly “he said/she said.” Aren’t there usually other witnesses, other evidence in play such as rape kits, etc? ETA: > [@](#): > > In the interest of perfect clarity: _if the jury doesn’t believe her, the defendant will be acquitted_. > > If someone makes a false accusation, they’ve committed a crime. If they repeat the accusation, under oath, they’ve committed another, more serious crime (perjury). Having their name dragged through the mud _should be_ the least of their concerns. If the jury doesn’t believe her, he will be acquitted. EVEN IF SHE IS TELLING THE TRUTH. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/172 "2015-06-22T04:06:47Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Can you expand on this please? I think there is an inequity in justice when it comes to race but not gender. When you have a greater than 10 fold disparity it might be at least worth taking a second look at rather than dismissing out of hand. [Incarceration rates by gender | Prison Policy Initiative](http://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/genderinc.html) ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/173 "2015-06-22T04:09:11Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > According to [RAINN](https://rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates), out of every 100 rapes, 32 get reported to police. Of those 32, that the police may or may not investigate (maybe they just want to clock out and go home, or they do investigate, and find an alibi or whatever) 7 lead to an arrest. Ok the police investigated at least those 7, and then 3 of those cases (of investigated, non-alibied suspects) are referred to the prosecutor for trial. Of those 3, 2 lead to conviction. Not bad, 2 of 3, right? Better than 50/50. No, 2 out of 100. It seems to me that there is more involved in sending a man to jail for rape than just “He did it! Send him to jail!” This is rather bad math. The 32/100 is not a meaningful metric for this scenario; the scenario we’re looking at starts with the claim, and moves to the point where a great deal of damage has been done to someone’s life (which is at the investigation and trial level, especially if the media gets involved in any way). So, 25% of accusations result in arrests. We can hope that false accusations make up the bulk of those 75%, but I haven’t seen a study or meta-analysis of false rape accusations that wasn’t politicized down to its eyeteeth, so I can’t say for sure. Do people want to dig out anecdotes of what happens when moderately-public figures are investigated for rape? I know that there are some high-profile examples of response to the accusation alone, but they’re high-profile and I have no idea if they are representative. I also don’t know how persuasive the average false rape accusation is compared to a true rape accusation; if true rape accusations are statistically-weighted towards hard-to-prove scenarios in which consensual sex was within reasonable doubt (possibly involving parties, drinking, the accused and victim knew each other, etc.), and false accusations are weighted towards making the case sound open-and-shut, to cause harm through the initial publicity and investigation, they could be highly disproportionate in the harm caused. This is complex stuff. I don’t think we can just look at similar scenarios and multiply out a chain of probabilities without taking a close look at how the scenario we’re looking at differs in each link of the chain. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/174 "2015-06-22T04:20:29Z")
> [@robertliguori](#): > > So, 25% of accusations result in arrests. We can hope that false accusations make up the bulk of those 75%, but I haven’t seen a study or meta-analysis of false rape accusations that wasn’t politicized down to its eyeteeth, so I can’t say for sure. 7 out of 100 accusations result in arrests. That’s 7%, not 25%. About a third of reported accusations leads to an investigation. ETA: 25% of INVESTIGATED accusations lead to an arrest. That means that the police investigated and found enough evidence (beyond her say so) that an assault took place. Yes, a false accusation does tremendous damage to the accused. An unconvicted rape does tremendous damage to the raped. The 32 that are investigated may or may not lead to that damage; I agree that’s it is complex and I can’t really draw a meaningful conclusion about how harmful rape accusations are, or how likely it is that a woman can destroy a man’s life based on on a he said/she said scenario. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/175 "2015-06-22T04:31:06Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > 7 out of 100 accusations result in arrests. That’s 7%, not 25%. About a third of reported accusations leads to an investigation. > > ETA: 25% of INVESTIGATED accusations lead to an arrest. That means that the police investigated and found enough evidence (beyond her say so) that an assault took place. > > Yes, a false accusation does tremendous damage to the accused. An unconvicted rape does tremendous damage to the raped. The 32 that are investigated may or may not lead to that damage; I agree that’s it is complex and I can’t really draw a meaningful conclusion about how harmful rape accusations are, or how likely it is that a woman can destroy a man’s life based on on a he said/she said scenario. I ran out time. I screwed up my own stats. RAINN is looking at rape under-reporting. So if we extrapolate that 32 to 100% -of those 32 that are reported, 7 lead to arrest. Yes, that’s 25%. The earlier argument, that I was responding to, was that police talk victims out of pursuing the case. If we assume that all 100% are investigated, then 75% do not result in an arrest. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/176 "2015-06-22T04:32:02Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/177 "2015-06-22T04:35:35Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > nm Were you going to correct me? 😛 I corrected myself. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/178 "2015-06-22T04:40:32Z")
Pretty much. I was going to ask you to clarify how unreported incidents count as accusations. But, yeah, you ninja’d me. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/179 "2015-06-22T04:48:22Z")
The other flaw with that data, in THIS discussion, is that those stats, being related to under-reporting specifically, are about actual RAPES. Out of every 100 rapes, 32 are reported, etc. This is assuming that all 100 are actual assaults, not accusations that may or may not be true. I was just trying to highlight the fact that it’s not that easy to send a guy to jail based on “he said/she said.” My understanding is that it’s a bit more involved than that. Then I got all tangled up in numbers and whatnot. Mea culpa. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022/180 "2015-06-22T05:02:11Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > When you have a greater than 10 fold disparity it might be at least worth taking a second look at rather than dismissing out of hand. [Incarceration rates by gender | Prison Policy Initiative](http://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/genderinc.html) I wasn’t dismissing anything out of hand. That’s yhole whole reason I asked him to expand on that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-going-their-own-way-mgtow/723022.md?page=10)