# Men in their 40's or above, how do you stay attracted to women your own age? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 19, 2017, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623 "2017-07-19T03:47:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/181 "2017-07-22T02:15:31Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > You may want to take back that last comment because that is by far the most offensive thing in this thread. My daughters are a young teen and a pre-teen. They mean the world to me and will always remain the most important thing. You just implied that I am a pedophile and do not appreciate the insinuation. We are talking about late 20’s to early 30’s, not kids and I have no idea why you thought otherwise. I got the impression that they were somewhat older than that. Your attitude about women is more offensive than anything I’ve written in this post. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/182 "2017-07-22T02:53:25Z")
Well at least he isn’t claiming to be a “nice guy.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/183 "2017-07-22T02:59:16Z")
**Shagnasty** , that’s just it. It wouldn’t matter to you if a woman had your attributes. If she isn’t hot, you’re not interested even though you’re not hot. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/184 "2017-07-22T03:27:01Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I got the impression that they were somewhat older than that. > > Your attitude about women is more offensive than anything I’ve written in this post. I don’t have a bad attitude towards women. The vast majority of them that know me think I am great. Again, romantic relationships are completely different from everything else. I had two female high school friends drive 200 miles to see me and I love them both but they are married and all we did was listen to music on a nice patio of a beautiful restaurant in Texas. It was wonderful. I paid for them too gladly and would do it ten times over. It is a different relationship. I am not the one that is misunderstanding male/female relationships but it is a constant source of confusion (I blame Billy Crystal because it isn’t true). They can take any form and not everything is about sex. Fathers love their daughters more than anything yet they still think that some twenty-somethings are pretty hot. It is just human nature. I have to go Arizona in January because my youngest daughter is a very talented competitive, gymnast. My ex-wife offered to share a bed with me but that probably isn’t going to happen because of my choice. We have two kids and know each other well. Her extremely wealthy parents have spoiled me and loved me since I was 18 years old. I still go to all holidays at their multiple houses and have free access to them. I could probably sleep with her if I wanted to but that might kick off a chain of events that I don’t want to deal with. I am trying to avoid all complications at this point in my life. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/185 "2017-07-22T06:20:44Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Your attitude about women is more offensive than anything I’ve written in this post. I don’t understand why you can’t understand why there is a difference in relationships. My daughters are the most important thing to me. You and others keep wanting to do this witch hunt but it isn’t true in the least. I am not ant-female at all and everyone else knows that. I am just a single father of two young girls that adore me and an overseer of 300 people that I need to help. I have gotten some really good dates but it takes a lot of effort. It is true that I am not a big fan of modern American marriage but that has little to do with ways to arrange a family. Both of my girls are spoiled beyond belief and I wouldn’t have it any other way as long as they work hard. I am an exclusive date for lots of reasons. The average person isn’t going to get one. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/186 "2017-07-22T06:57:21Z")
> [@naita](#): > > I didn’t fall in love until I was over 40 myself. Had only short and somewhat unsatisfying relationships before that. Short because I always felt there was something missing and am comfortable on my own. > I was somewhat worried that maybe I just wasn’t wired properly for love, or could only get properly sexually exited with someone young and “model hot”. > And then life proved that hypothesis wrong. > > I don’t think there exists an answer to the OP’s title question. What was he expecting? > [ul] > [li]I make sure to have a hard boiled egg and wheat bran every morning.[/li][li]I deliberately only whack off to episodes of the golden girls.[/li][li]I’m a well rounded human being and look beyond the surface. You can be too with these Boobs-away™ x-ray specs.[/li][/ul] > > Whacking off to the Golden Girls should be a crime. > People are generally attracted to whatever they are attracted to. I do however think that people are often unaware of how **little** experience they have with their own preferences. Living is like running an experiment where you can’t get much beyond n=10. Yes, you have to run with those results since you can’t get at any other, but try to remember that it’s a low powered study. Find the youngest girl you can bang… > [@DSeid](#): > > Married and find my 58 year old wife of 33 years and four kids very attractive but this comment does serve as a reality check to some of the positions staked out here. > > I know that my wife thought the younger me, with a full head of curly hair, was more physically attractive than the current bald pated one. One morning I woke to her staring at me and saying “how did I end up in bed with middle aged man?” Seriously I think our self-image stops somewhere around 30 plus minus 5 and we best imagine ourselves with someone consistent with that deluded self-image. What I think happens is that long term partners are often at least partially included in our self-delusion bubble. > > Most “men in their 40’s or above” who partake of observing “women on the computer” are not preferentially searching for material of their own age or older. > > I definitely see many women my age and a bit older as “hot” and some who are younger “not.” What is first reaction changes often once a personality and mind gets experienced as well. But in terms of superficial reaction before mind and personality gets engaged the statements of some here that they see the older of their gender of attraction as more appealing than those a bit younger seem a bit of protest too much. I do not think there is anything pathetic about my finding Gal Gadot, 26 years younger than me and the same age as my oldest son, amazingly hot. > [@Muffin](#): > > Wisdom, experience, depth and balance are very sexy, and often improve with age. > [@PunditLisa](#): > > I think that the stereotype of women falling for older men is grounded in the fact that throughout history, females have held a lower rank in society. It’s not until recently that women could vote, own property, run a company. I think that younger women started developing an attraction to older men, not because they thought that they were better looking-- surely not, as a 44-year old man ages just as much as a 44-year old woman, perhaps even more so when you take hair into consideration – but because older men represented financial security. Makes sense. Attraction = sex = babies. > > As women have become more educated, and wealthy in their own right, we’re starting to see the natural progression of that cultural shift. With rank comes privilege because we’re seeing many more divorces initiated by women, as many more older woman/younger man relationships. > > So take heart those over 50 like myself! You don’t need to be physically attractive to find a smoking hot mate. You just need cold, hard cash. > > “Face it girls. I’m older and I have more insurance.” > ― Fannie Flagg, Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Cafe Sean Connery. ---
**Author:** ![DummyGladHands](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DummyGladHands](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DummyGladHands)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/187 "2017-07-22T13:54:32Z")
Now you sound very creepy ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/188 "2017-07-22T14:19:31Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I don’t understand why you can’t understand why there is a difference in relationships. My daughters are the most important thing to me. Would you want to see either of them one day in a relationship with a man like their dad? (Difficult question. I’d have to answer “No” for myself) ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/189 "2017-07-22T15:22:55Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Tell me what kind of responses would a woman get if she started a thread bemoaning how hard it is to find a fuckable man because all she’s finding are blokes making \<$55,000 and driving old cars financed from CarMax. > > “Ladies, how do you stay attracted to these broke-ass men who can’t even afford a date night at Ruth’s Chris” she asks, and then scratches her in head in wonderment as poster after poster say such crazy things as “money isn’t everything”, “Its his personality that I love the most”, and “I don’t particularly want to eat at Ruth’s Chris; give me a man who can cook and I’m naked.” > > Not sure what the OP is looking for? Assurance that he’s not the only dude who finds women his age repulsive? An opportunity to sneak brag about potentially scoring with a young hottie? Haven’t the foggiest. But to see where some of us are coming from all you have to imagine is that he’s a woman lamenting the absence of six-figure income earners among her dating prospects. There are reports about college educated women being unable to find suitable marriage partners. The reason is that women generally prefer men of equal or higher socio-economic status. However women earn about 40% more tertiary degrees than men. Supposedly by the age of 40, the ratio of women to men who have a bachelors degree and who are single is about 2:1. > **[These women can't find enough marriageable men](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/these-women-cant-find-enough-marriageable-men/)** > > While fewer Americans are marrying overall, two groups of women face particularly tough marital odds It is what it is. Humans are not 1 dimensional biological robots, but we are not libertarian, enlightened souls with no ties to biology either. At the end of the day men crave women who are fertile and women crave men who can provide for and protect them and their offspring (which among other things means a man with a good level of socio-economic status). That is not all we look for, but it is a factor of what we look for (for some people it is a major factor, for others not as major). It is what it is. We are just a bunch of primates trying to get each other pregnant. ---
**Author:** ![CoffinMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@CoffinMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoffinMan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/190 "2017-07-22T16:14:37Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > I find plenty of women my own age attractive, they just tend to be in relationships. After my wife died unexpectedly 3 years ago this coming August, I found myself suddenly alone. After a year of mourning at the suggestion of my bereavement counselor I started to entertain the idea of dating again. As stated above, I did find plenty of women my age (I’m 49 now) attractive but most of them were unavailable and I would have dated them if there were available. As to dating younger women, I did find suddenly that many younger women were flirting with me however one of the first women that asked me out was an attractive 19 year old I happened to meet, One singular lunch date with her made me realize that I have so very little in common with a woman her age so I pretty much shelved the concept. I was very fortunate to later meet and become involved with a young woman who is quite special and who makes me very happy, however I came very close to dismissing the notion entirely of dating her at that time simply because she is 20 years my junior. I am however very glad that I did take the chance since after getting to know her I found her to be highly intelligent, artistically creative and interesting and far more mature than most people her age -certainly more mature and intelligent than I was at her age - and I have a level of happiness now that after my wife died I thought I would never experience again. I know folks are going to snicker and write me off as some sort of dirty old man who is perving on a significantly younger woman, however believe it or not sexuality is only one small component of our relationship. Yes, she is very attractive however I have come to find over the years of dating that attractiveness in and of itself is not sufficient on it’s own to buttress a relationship. A pretty face loses whatever magnetic attraction it had over time and absent any other positive qualities is not enough on it’s own. Sure maybe it would be enough for a hookup or something casual but beyond the fleeting achievement of an orgasm there are so many other factors which have to click together to make a relationship work. I can say that I am glad that I did not dismiss the idea of dating her just because of her age. Similarly, I am glad that I was attracted to her in the first place and was lucky enough to become attracted to a woman who was far more than just a pretty wrinkle free face and smoking hot body. We’ve been dating for about two years now and I love her sense of humor and her level of intellect in our discussions far more than her body and face - and it is because those other components are in line with my needs that I am still dating her. I get that OP is likely not seeking a soul mate given how it sounds that relationships have taken a big enough chunk out of his ass to appear to him at this juncture a zero sum game, and that instead he is likely looking for a purely physical hook up. Hey, more power to him if that’s his trip. I do agree with the suggestion that perhaps he would be better off just ordering an escort/prostitute. At least in that situation he wont have to pretend to care to get to know his date in any way beyond conveying his interest in putting his thing in her thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/191 "2017-07-22T16:15:38Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > It is what it is. We are just a bunch of primates trying to get each other pregnant. And we have fun trying! Especially since I’ve had a vasectomy. Still, it is fun to keep trying. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/192 "2017-07-22T16:22:19Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > There are reports about college educated women being unable to find suitable marriage partners. > > The reason is that women generally prefer men of equal or higher socio-economic status. Not IME. I kept going on dates with guys who expected me to drop my career to take care of their children (they never spoke of “having our children” or “taking care of our children”, it was them who used “my”, which kind of made me feel like I was a flowerpot rather than a human being); into guys who wanted to date me or my friends while they thought we were undergrads but ran away when they discovered we were in grad school; into guys who, if they were to allow their wife to work, claimed that “the wife must never earn more than the husband”. Every single guy with whom I only went on a date came up with one or more of those. The guys with whom I went on a second date all made at least as much as I did or more at the time (duh, a TA’s salary was barely over the poverty line) - but all of them had a much lower earning potential than I did. None of them pulled the “oh how nice you’re an engineer, I’m hoping you’re happy to become a SAHM” card. Male insecurity \<\> female pickiness. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/193 "2017-07-22T16:41:33Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Fathers love their daughters more than anything yet they still think that some twenty-somethings are pretty hot. It is just human nature. Two points I’d like to make here. I have one daughter and she is my youngest. I also have two older sons. 3 kids in all. I am 56, and they are now 33, 31, and 29. So she is 29. About 7 years ago, when she was 22, I was on a business trip to Vegas. My two coworkers and I, and we’re all guys about the same age, we went to a bar on The Strip one night. And there were two young hotties celebrating … (something, I didn’t know what). They were having a good time, whooping it up, and cajoling with the three of us and some others nearby. And they were very friendly, laughing, talking it up, leaning over and touching me and putting her head on my shoulder. They were tipsy but not overly so. They were happy, and we were happy to help them share their celebratory moment. At one point one of them says, “Let’s do body shots!” And the next thing I know, one of them is lying on the bar in front of us, exposing her fine midriff, from just below her perky breasts to well below her navel. And the other one is drinking shots off of the exposed abdomen. And a fine abdomen it was. I was hornier than all get out, and if I had to get up and walk, it would have been difficult. My vivid imagination was hoping that the one lying on the bar looked me in the eye, smiled, and said, “Take me, now”. Anyway, back to reality. They were young and hot. But when I found out they were celebrating their college graduation, I realized Holy Shit That Means They’re About 22 Or 23, And That Means They’re The Same Age As My Daughter! I instantly felt skeevy, like an old lecherous dirt bag. I felt dirty. It was quite a sobering moment. (but still, they were pretty fucking hot!) The other point is much quicker, about fathers loving their daughters. When raising my girl, I treasured her. I loved her dearly, and she was my princess. I often would say to her, “You are my princess, but you cannot be _ **a** _ princess.” There’s an important difference! ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/194 "2017-07-22T17:12:26Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I don’t have a bad attitude towards women. The vast majority of them that know me think I am great. Again, romantic relationships are completely different from everything else. I truly do not think you can compartmentalize these concepts as much as you think you can. Women love you, but by your own indication they don’t really know you because you’re more honest on these boards than in your IRL relationships. So who do they really love beyond a charming facade? Do you think they would be fine with the things you’ve posted here? I’m guessing many of them would take you to task. You may very well be a great guy in all those respects, and it’s important to love your daughters, many don’t and Og bless you for putting them first, but your failure to understand or respect women in the context of relationships is a massive problem with women. My intent is not to drag you through the mud, but you don’t get a pass because you’re good to women in every context but this one. It’s also safe to say that a lot of the young women you are going to be dating probably weren’t loved by their fathers. I don’t believe it applies to every woman, but those qualities that make you a great Dad will be attractive to women who wanted a great Dad. My husband is my own age (34), but a lot of my friends are older men. It’s not like I actively sought that out, but I’m sure there is some part of me that yearns for the safe father figure I never had and explains how I was brought into the fold so quickly. Have you considered that this is what these young ladies may be looking for, as much as a good time in Costa Rica? This isn’t really something you can ask about up front, because I don’t think most young women are even aware of the extent to which it drives their behavior. You’ll find out soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/195 "2017-07-22T17:14:17Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > There are reports about college educated women being unable to find suitable marriage partners. > > The reason is that women generally prefer men of equal or higher socio-economic status. However women earn about 40% more tertiary degrees than men. Supposedly by the age of 40, the ratio of women to men who have a bachelors degree and who are single is about 2:1. > > [These women can't find enough marriageable men - CBS News](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/these-women-cant-find-enough-marriageable-men/) > > It is what it is. Humans are not 1 dimensional biological robots, but we are not libertarian, enlightened souls with no ties to biology either. At the end of the day men crave women who are fertile and women crave men who can provide for and protect them and their offspring (which among other things means a man with a good level of socio-economic status). That is not all we look for, but it is a factor of what we look for (for some people it is a major factor, for others not as major). > > It is what it is. We are just a bunch of primates trying to get each other pregnant. Your claim is that these outcomes are biologically based. Cite? It’s so disheartening to see you fall for this evo-psych BS. It’s old-fashioned gender essentialism masquerading as science. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/196 "2017-07-22T17:30:21Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Your claim is that these outcomes are biologically based. Cite? > > It’s so disheartening to see you fall for this evo-psych BS. It’s old-fashioned gender essentialism masquerading as science. I don’t know how to prove that these behaviors are biologically based, but they do exist. In general, men care about youth and looks more than women, and women care about socioeconomic status more than men in general. [http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/love-sex/72632931/men-want-beauty-women-want-financial-security-from-relationships](http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/love-sex/72632931/men-want-beauty-women-want-financial-security-from-relationships) Are you saying that evo-psych is being used to justify existing stereotypes and justify oppression of marginalized groups? I guess to me, evo-psych explains where the stereotypes comes from, rather than justify them. Either way, as I said we aren’t robots but we aren’t angels either. It is up to us how much we indulge or resist our biological programming. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/197 "2017-07-22T17:59:48Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Are you saying that evo-psych is being used to justify existing stereotypes and justify oppression of marginalized groups? I guess to me, evo-psych explains where the stereotypes comes from, rather than justify them. There’s a high degree of overlap between proponents of evo-psych and raving misogynist douchebags. You aren’t a raving misogynist douchebag, so obviously this doesn’t apply to everyone. But it’s a pet theory among the ‘‘women are biologically programmed to be oppressed’’ MRA crowd. But really it’s the science (or lack thereof) that irks me most of all. I’d say I’m about 50/50 on nature vs. nurture and actually they aren’t mutually exclusive due to epigenetics, but the simple fact of the matter is that we can’t prove why these differences exist. Evo-psych is a fantastic example of the logical fallacy of begging the question. Its methodology assumes, absent evidence, that these differences are biologically driven. AFAIC most of this is unproven theory and a lot of it totally misses the boat on cultural variation. Maybe **Shag** is into younger women because he’s attracted to their relative fertility, or maybe it’s because older women are all but absent from media as romantic prospects, or maybe the two influences feed off one another in a vicious cycle, but we don’t actually know. Maybe women look for ‘‘providers’’ because up until recent history we had no way of supporting or defining ourselves outside of our relationship to a man. We don’t actually know, but the fact that women in the US are increasingly choosing more egalitarian relationships and putting off childbirth or forgoing it all together is a big clue that a lot of human behavior is culturally driven. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/198 "2017-07-22T18:26:42Z")
I don’t know how you’d prove where biology ends and culture begins. It is my understanding that the higher level of SES a woman obtains for herself, the more she is concerned with things like good looks in a male partner. Women who have no ability to provide for themselves value a man’s earning potential more, while women who can provide for themselves value it less but they start valuing other traits more. I really am not sure how you prove the role of biology in modern human behavior. You can easily make the argument that we are programmed by biology to crave calorie dense, easily digested foods high in fat and sugar because in our history we rarely ran across these and that these are excellent antifamine foods. In today’s environment that just predisposes us to obesity, but I have no idea how you determine how much of that is biological vs cultural. The culture seems to come out of the biology. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/199 "2017-07-22T18:36:34Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I don’t know how you’d prove where biology ends and culture begins. I don’t think we can, at least not with our current scientific tools. Especially because, as with epigenetics, our environment actually changes our genetic expression. > [@](#): > > It is my understanding that the higher level of SES a woman obtains for herself, the more she is concerned with things like good looks in a male partner. Women who have no ability to provide for themselves value a man’s earning potential more, while women who can provide for themselves value it less but they start valuing other traits more. I suspect that’s cultural. Does it hold true globally? Is it true in India? China? Aboriginal tribes? > [@](#): > > I really am not sure how you prove the role of biology in modern human behavior. You can easily make the argument that we are programmed by biology to crave calorie dense, easily digested foods high in fat and sugar because in our history we rarely ran across these and that these are excellent antifamine foods. In today’s environment that just predisposes us to obesity, but I have no idea how you determine how much of that is biological vs cultural. The culture seems to come out of the biology. Absolutely. That’s my point. We can’t assume anything. Evo-psych _assumes._ I would never throw out the role of biology or environment in shaping human behavior. I don’t think we have justification for doing either. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623/200 "2017-07-22T18:52:50Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Maybe **Shag** is into younger women because he’s attracted to their relative fertility, or maybe it’s because older women are all but absent from media as romantic prospects, or maybe the two influences feed off one another in a vicious cycle, but we don’t actually know. Maybe women look for ‘‘providers’’ because up until recent history we had no way of supporting or defining ourselves outside of our relationship to a man. We don’t actually know, but the fact that women in the US are increasingly choosing more egalitarian relationships and putting off childbirth or forgoing it all together is a big clue that a lot of human behavior is culturally driven. I never say anything but ‘maybe’ as to what the real cause is for a whole lot of apparently deeply embedded behaviors, not limited to sex. I think in fact the best one can do is use one’s own limited experiences, along with the inevitable biases, to say something is pretty deeply embedded or not. IMO, IME, older men being more able to attract younger women relative to other way around is pretty deeply embedded. I readily grant that on a surface basis of economic stats things have changed considerably (relative income or men v women, % of college grads who are women, etc). But I don’t see that leading to the basic change in older-younger dynamic you see\*. Lots more women are financially independent than used to be…and lots more (though not necessarily fully proportionally) are SOL finding men they consider suitable by the time they achieve that independence. Which 40’s (say) single successful men just aren’t. You’d grant there’s still something different there, no? Extending ‘1/2 your age plus 7’ to much old men than that, then sure it’s not a large % of men in 60’s or 70’s who are ‘players’ with women in late 30’s to early 40’s according to the semi-fanciful formula. By that age a man has to be quite rich or otherwise exceptional to be any kind of player. But by same token, a women in that age range dating much younger men is mainly the province of fiction AFAIK, or the unusual real life people who inspire fiction. If the idea is ‘well it _was_ that way but now rapidly moving toward all the same’, I don’t see that. \*conceivably I see what I want to see, but it’s pretty strange subconscious thing if so since I have no expectation or desire to be on the dating scene myself nor any conscious vicarious pride in ‘my’ fellow guys who are doing it. But who knows. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-in-their-40s-or-above-how-do-you-stay-attracted-to-women-your-own-age/791623.md?page=11)