# Men’s dress shirt collars **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 12, 2000, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248 "2000-12-12T22:14:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/1 "2000-12-12T22:14:20Z")
I have a pile of dress shirts that have those removable collar tabs. And I have a pile of questions about those tabs. [list=a] [li]Are they even called tabs?[/li][li]Why? What is the advantage over the tabs that are sown in?[/li][li]Is there a name for this type of collar and what might that be?[/li][li]Where can I buy replacements? I forget occasionally to remove them and my dry cleaner rarely returns them. As a result, I have only 6 or 8 of them for about a dozen shirts.[/li][li]And finally, in his song _It’s Still Rock and Roll to Me_, just what the hell does Billy Joel mean when he says “Maybe I should buy some old tab collars?”[/li][/list=a] That should keep some of you busy today. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/2 "2000-12-12T22:24:53Z")
I’ll have a go at some of the questions: A: I knew what you were talking about, but I’d call them collar stays. B: Maybe the advantage is that they ARE replaceable. So that if you melt or mangle one during ironing, you can put in a new one. C: no idea D: Shirt shops? Or maybe cutting up a 2 liter plastic bottle to make your own? E: This song always made me think of those tuxedo shirts with the tiny ‘tab’ collars, but I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/3 "2000-12-12T22:26:16Z")
A) AFAIK, yes. B) You can conveniently have a soft or stiff collar in the same shirt, also, sewn-in tabs can begin to create impressions in the collar when overstarched by an unscrupulous drycleaner. C) again, AFAIK, “Tab Collar” D) My dry cleaner sells them. I believe I’ve seen a small display at the Men’s Wearhouse on Wabash in Chicago. Specific enough? E) Come on, what else goes with a bright orange pair of pants? ---
**Author:** ![stargazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@stargazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stargazer)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/4 "2000-12-12T22:28:53Z")
Well, here’s what I’ve been able to find: 1. They’re not officially called tabs. They’re “removable collar stiffeners.” 2. Their advantage is versatility – the same shirt, without the stiffener, is supposed to be a more casual look. It probably has something to do with washing, too – maybe it’s easier on the fabric if they’re taken out before laundering. 3. There are TONS of men’s collars. Well, maybe not tons. But a lot. [Here](http://www.fashionmall.com/flusser_book/doc/ch7part2.htm) are a few. 4. I couldn’t find a place that sold them separately, but most fine men’s shirt shops said they would give extras to their customers if asked. And I bet you could find a tailor in town who could get them for you. [Here](http://chicago.citysearch.com/page/uit?_uit_id=UIT_00006802) are some tailors in the Chicago area. And your dry cleaner might have a stash that he’d be willing to share with you. 5. When that song came out, tab collars (see #3) were coming back into style: [http://www.shirtstore.com/style/history.htm](http://www.shirtstore.com/style/history.htm). He was trying to be cool… ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/5 "2000-12-12T22:31:52Z")
Try this link: [http://www.costumegallery.com](http://www.costumegallery.com) They might have some insight. ---
**Author:** ![stargazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@stargazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stargazer)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/6 "2000-12-12T22:33:31Z")
Doh! In order for that last link to work, you’ll have to take that period off the end. Sorry… ---
**Author:** ![Cantrip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Cantrip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cantrip)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/7 "2000-12-12T22:36:20Z")
Hi, **UncleBeer**. Try [Collars 101](http://www.sharpman.com/Article.asp?ArticleID=53) for a quick and dirty guide to collars. As for stays, any tailor or department store should have some extras they might be happy to part with. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/8 "2000-12-12T22:36:41Z")
In case no one has beat me to this, tab collars have little flaps extending from each side of the collar gap. Each flap is about 3/8 inch wide, and just long enough to snap together behind the (usually skinny) tie. This style was briefly big in the early-to-mid sixties. The effect was to make the collar and tie seem more smooth (and even more uncomfortable.) ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/9 "2000-12-12T22:44:20Z")
> [@](#): > > And your dry cleaner might have a stash that he’d be willing to share with you. I know my drycleaner has a stash of these little things. The son of a bitch has **mine**! He must be giving them to his _good_ customers. ---
**Author:** ![rackensack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@rackensack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rackensack)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/10 "2000-12-12T22:45:03Z")
Having found myself at a bar mitzvah out of town, with my best dress shirt but no stays (my wife having removed them before laundering the shirt), I was able to buy a package of a dozen or so in the hotel gift shop, from the same display area as the sewing kits, etc. Apparently it’s the sort of item that gets overlooked frequently when packing. I don’t know, but I suspect that **stoli** and **stargazer** are on the right track in their answers to your second question: the hard edges of the stay would be a significant stress point during laundering and ironing, and would cause the fabric to fray more quickly. With cheap shirts that can be expected to wear out quickly anyway, it doesn’t matter, so they’re sewn in. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/11 "2000-12-12T23:36:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\*That should keep some of you busy today. Thanks. \*\* I’M keeping busy trying to figure out just where you go and what you do to need collars that stiff. C’mon, **Unc!** Take off your shoes, climb a tree, and learn to play the flute. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2000, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/12 "2000-12-13T00:06:40Z")
I think the _real_ **General Question** here is: What the hell is an _engineer_ doing with a dozen dress shirts?? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2000, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/13 "2000-12-13T18:36:20Z")
**Uke** , I need a stiff collar to support my floppy neck. That seems to happen to me a lot. Especially after 4 or 5 hours in the bar. And it’s too damned cold to take my shoes off. Hell, it’s so cold I ain’t takin’ _anything_ off. Not even for **Gaudere**. **Mr. C. Fire** , _some_ of us have a sartorial image to uphold. Well, that, and nothing better to spend our money on. Thanks, everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Lsura](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Lsura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lsura)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2000, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/14 "2000-12-14T01:11:18Z")
**Since** I happen to work for a clothing manufacturer, I think that I may be able to answer these. Sort of. Of course, I’ll be using almost no information gleaned from my employment, but rather from my father and his shirts, along with my mother’s years of ironing them. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > > **Are they even called tabs?** Collar stays. 'Cause they make the collar stay in place. 😛 > [@](#): > > \*\* Why? What is the advantage over the tabs that are sown in?\*\* Removable stays are less likely to become deformed during the laundry process. If the stays become deformed, the collar doesn’t lay flat, and consumers become unhappy with the product, and may not buy the same brand. > [@](#): > > \*\* Is there a name for this type of collar and what might that be?\*\* No freakin’ clue. I think they are pretty common in dress shirts. I would refer to them as a dress collar. > [@](#): > > **Where can I buy replacements?** As to buying them, I don’t know. My mother made replacements out of gallon milk jugs when necessary. Those are pretty easy to cut with scissors. Trace one onto the jug, and cut around it. Make **sure** that you wash the jug out well before doing this. It wouldn’t do to smell of sour milk. > [@](#): > > **And finally, in his song _It’s Still Rock and Roll to Me_, just what the hell does Billy Joel mean when he says “Maybe I should buy some old tab collars?”** No freakin’ idea. I always thought they were wide collars that used these stays to appear as wide as possible. Think 1970’s collars. ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2000, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/15 "2000-12-14T04:17:29Z")
You gotta have collar stays. If you take them out, your collar is all floppy and the points of the collars curl and point up, it just looks bad, especially when wearing a tie. I had a hard time finding replacement collar stays, but I finally found them at a fabric and sewing supply store. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2000, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/16 "2000-12-14T13:17:27Z")
Collar stays keep the points of the collar stiff, as has been pointed out. A tab collar has a little flap (in addition to the top button of the shirt) that mates with either a snap or button and serves to pull the collar close together (practically around the knot of your tie). The look is pretty distinctive and flashy. You can usually get collar stays from your dry cleaner, or you can, if you’ve got some money to burn, buy brass ones. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2000, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/17 "2000-12-14T14:52:37Z")
As info, I’ve purchased a small glass container of collar stays before. I know Brooks Brothers sells them, and some department stores do, as well. ---
**Author:** ![lesa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/34f0e0/32.png) [@lesa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lesa)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2000, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-s-dress-shirt-collars/45248/18 "2000-12-14T18:31:26Z")
You can get these at almost any fabric store. They have them for people who make men’s shirts. You’ll probably have to ask an employee to help you find them. If you really need to, you can order them online. Here are some links. [http://store.yahoo.com/hancockfabricstore/hcn00500.html](http://store.yahoo.com/hancockfabricstore/hcn00500.html) The stays are $1.49, the shipping is $3. [http://www.drycleandave.com/products.html#lint](http://www.drycleandave.com/products.html#lint) This site offers dry cleaning supplies to ordinary consumers. Collar stays are $3 a dozen. Couldn’t find the shipping.