# Men vs women- take NO for a answer? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 26, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839 "2021-02-26T20:00:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/1 "2021-02-26T20:00:11Z")
I have been told, that unless it is a soft no (I can’t Saturday, I am…") men should take NO for a answer. Sure. But then why all the “romantic” films and TV shows where it is considered highly romantic for the man to keep chasing? _Bob_ ❤ _Abisola_ for one, but many, many others. And women find them romantic. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/2 "2021-02-26T20:02:29Z")
Because subject-object polarized male-female sexual interaction is eroticized in our patriarchal culture. We can say that patriarchy is wrong and also say that patriarchy is here, around us, and those aren’t contradictory positions, right? ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/3 "2021-02-26T20:02:45Z")
We live in a misogynist rape-enabling/excusing culture. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/4 "2021-02-26T20:02:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But then why all the “romantic” films and TV shows where it is considered highly romantic for the man to keep chasing? _Bob_ ❤ _Abisola_ for one, but many, many others. And women find them romantic. The rom-com category of films is basically emotional pornography, and Tom Hanks is essentially the Ron Jeremy of the genre. Like porn, you should not use it as an example of how to do things in real life. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/5 "2021-02-26T20:19:52Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The rom-com category of films is basically emotional pornography, and Tom Hanks is essentially the Ron Jeremy of the genre. What movies, other than _Bachelor Party_, are you referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/6 "2021-02-26T20:24:00Z")
It’s always ‘No’ unless it is stated so clearly otherwise that the man’s ears bleed from the klaxon. And even then, save the text, email, letter, video tape or recording where she said yes. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/7 "2021-02-26T20:28:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What movies, other than _Bachelor Party_ , are you referring to? I don’t think anyone considers _Bachelor Party_ to be a rom com. I’m thinking movies like _You’ve Got Mail_ and _Sleepless in Seattle_ are romantic comedies. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/8 "2021-02-26T20:38:03Z")
American popular culture also almost universally depicts police oversight authorities and Internal Affairs units as overly-bureaucratic meddlers and departmental regulations and even _laws_ as aggravating red tape that just prevent Heroic Maverick Cops from delivering Justice to Bad Guys. Also, cars explode when shot, guns never run out of ammo, repeated blows to the head result in temporary unconsciousness and no after-effects more severe than a transient headache, and so on and so forth. Rom-coms aren’t remotely realistic. Neither are bodice-ripper romance novels. That’s the entire point. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/9 "2021-02-26T20:39:32Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I don’t think anyone considers _Bachelor Party_ to be a rom com. I’m thinking movies like _You’ve Got Mail_ and _Sleepless in Seattle_ are romantic comedies. Also _Splash_, _Big_ and _Joe Versus The Volcano_ Of course, that makes Matthew McConaughey the John Holmes of rom-coms. Hey, at least it is an accomplishment. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/10 "2021-02-26T20:40:04Z")
There is often a very different set of standards we apply to fictional characters. I call it the Dan Fielding Affect after the bullying sexually harassing character from _Night Court._ Can you imagine being friends with someone like Sheldon Cooper from _The Big Bang Theory?_ I can’t because he’s an awful human being. But I don’t mind watching him or the antics of Dan Fielding once a week for 22 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/11 "2021-02-26T20:44:54Z")
Here is Bill Burr’s take on it (NSFW)… > **No Means No** > > [Bill burr - No means no - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ3QHTpMZgQ) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/12 "2021-02-26T20:50:53Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > There is often a very different set of standards we apply to fictional characters. Or celebrities. See this documentary for proof [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/PxuUkYiaUc8/maxresdefault.jpg "Sexual Harassment and You - Saturday Night Live") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuUkYiaUc8) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/13 "2021-02-26T21:06:20Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Rom-coms aren’t remotely realistic. Neither are bodice-ripper romance novels. That’s not the point. No one is claiming they are realistic. But women _do_ find them romantic. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/14 "2021-02-26T21:17:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s not the point. No one is claiming they are realistic. But women _do_ find them romantic. Sure. And _Alias_ is one of my all-time favorite TV shows. That doesn’t mean I would have actually have wanted to work with someone who acted like Sydney Bristow when I was in Military Intelligence. And the CIA interrogator I knew was _nothing_ like Jack Bristow, and if he had acted like Jack Bristow, I would have been horrified and immediately reported him. Jack Bristow is still one of my all-time favorite fictional characters. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/15 "2021-02-26T21:22:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@gdave](#): > > > > Rom-coms aren’t remotely realistic. Neither are bodice-ripper romance novels. > > That’s not the point. No one is claiming they are realistic. But women _do_ find them romantic. So your point is that you (@Drdeth) are confused to learn that women’s taste in fiction differs from women’s taste in real life? Or more precisely, you’re confused that Hollywood’s interpretation of what will sell as women’s taste in fiction differs from women’s taste in real life? That’s a reasonable question coming from a 14 yo. For someone with a bit more life experience less so, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/16 "2021-02-26T21:23:26Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s not the point. No one is claiming they are realistic. But women _do_ find them romantic. Also, I consume a _lot_ of entertainment with audience-identificaton-protagonists who get into sword fights with inhuman monsters. I play a _lot_ of games where I pretend to be someone who gets into a _lot_ of sword fights with inhuman monsters. That doesn’t mean I actually want to get into a sword fight with an inhuman monster. _Some_ women _sometimes_ enjoy consuming fiction where a hot guy relentlessly pursues a woman. That doesn’t really have much to do with how they actually want to be treated in real life by real men. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/17 "2021-02-26T21:24:33Z")
There’s a big difference between what people may want in fantasy and what they may want in real life. As has often been pointed out, with movies like _Fifty Shades of Grey, Twilight,_ etc. - the male lead would be considered a creep and stalker and loathsome if he were anything but the billionaire/handsome/charismatic guy that he is in the movie. It’s not real life and it’s not meant to be real life. And many woman want to be pursued hard by someone that they _like_. The problem comes when someone they _ **don’t** _ like is pursuing them hard. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/18 "2021-02-26T21:30:33Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > _Some_ women _sometimes_ enjoy consuming fiction where a hot guy relentlessly pursues a woman. That doesn’t really have much to do with how they actually want to be treated in real life by real men. Although there are a lot of women out there who are disappointed that their dating partners aren’t as exciting as leading men in romantic comedies. I recall one ad by a woman who dressed up like Julia Roberts on the movie poster with the title, “I want you to treat me like a Pretty Woman…”, and I remember thinking, you want me to hire you to be an escort? Most romantic comedies are pretty distributing when you actually think through the implications. I mean, Tom Hanks basically destroys Meg Ryan’s family business, and like some kind of victim of domestic abuse she fawns over him. And then there’s _Sixteen Candles_… Stranger ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/19 "2021-02-26T21:33:46Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > And many woman want to be pursued hard by someone that they _like_ . The problem comes when someone they _ **don’t** _ like is pursuing them hard. Right - fiction is “safe” and one can get a vicarious thrill from things that they would _absolutely hate_ if they were real. In fiction, the relentless guy can be assumed to be a good guy, because he is one by definition. This holds true even if the only reason he’s considered good is narrative convention - a lot of these “heroes” are actually awful people, but they’re still safe because they’re fictional, so how they act, even in story, doesn’t matter that much. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/20 "2021-02-26T21:36:53Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > … > I recall one ad by a woman who dressed up like Julia Roberts on the movie poster with the title, “I want you to treat me like a Pretty Woman…”, and I remember thinking, you want me to hire you to be an escort? > … Might’ve been fun to write to her and say > You’re hired. I understand it’s $500/hour (or whatever). Be at {location} at {time}. Dress pretty. And see what response you got. I’m betting it wouldn’t be like Tom Brady’s from my documentary above. More like the other guy. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839.md?page=2)