# Men vs women- take NO for a answer? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 26, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839 "2021-02-26T20:00:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/321 "2021-03-08T22:39:52Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I guess I wonder how you know you’re really asexual though. Like, surveys show not all women masturbate, but that doesn’t mean they’re asexual. So it can’t be completely obvious It can be completely obvious that you’re not asexual, though. Being distractingly horny much of the time is hard to miss. There are however people who aren’t asexual who don’t have that problem. > [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Yes, I was referring to the narrower case of a woman baring a child that is conceived by someone other than whom she is married to, and concealing this fact from the husband. Ah. I hadn’t heard the term used that way for humans; but apparently some people do. It could happen with a trans man; though that would be an unusual case. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/322 "2021-03-08T22:42:05Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > If the betrayed spouse is aware of the infidelity, I would not use the term “cuckold” ? That seems a bit weird, because the term “cuckolding” is routinely used about [a quite common male fetish for wanting their wives to have sex with another man](https://www.esquire.com/uk/life/sex-relationships/news/a12119/cuckolding-guide-watch-partner-sex-with-someone-else/). In such cases, the (self-identified) cuckold is not only aware of the infidelity but is actually encouraging or even requesting it. In traditional use, as far as I can tell from historical literature, “cuckold” has typically just meant a man whose wife has had extramarital sex with another man. A man can be cuckolded whether or not he knows about his wife’s infidelity, whether or not he’s okay with his wife’s infidelity, and whether or not his wife’s infidelity has resulted in pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/323 "2021-03-08T22:51:52Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It can be completely obvious that you’re not asexual, though. Being distractingly horny much of the time is hard to miss. It’s easier to be sure about the presence of something than the absence. That’s why I think it would be easier to realise you’re gay. I reckon many people have gone through periods of lacking desire, but for most it’s temporary and has a definite cause. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Ah. I hadn’t heard the term used that way for humans; but apparently some people do. I’ve heard it used that way for humans, and seen men complaining about the laws in some places that say they have to pay child support even if DNA testing proves the kid isn’t theirs. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It could happen with a trans man; though that would be an unusual case. Do you mean with a trans woman? > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > It’s complicated by the fact that there are many ways to be asexual. I have a close friend who is a biromantic sex-repulsed asexual. Just the thought of sex makes her nauseated. She’s in love with and engaged to a man who is heterosexual. That sounds awkward. My friend is more in the ‘no interest but don’t mind doing it’ group, and she used to be married to a heterosexual guy. She didn’t realise until after they were married, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/324 "2021-03-08T23:09:53Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Do you mean with a trans woman? No. A person born with a uterus, fallopian tubes, ovaries, and vagina who identifies as a man is a trans man, not a trans woman. Some such men can get pregnant. The point originally being discussed was a claim that women can cuckold a man but men can’t cuckold a woman. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/325 "2021-03-08T23:17:15Z")
So surely a trans woman could be cuckolded but not a trans man? I think we’re just looking at it from the opposite point of view. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/326 "2021-03-08T23:20:25Z")
Possibly. My point was that a trans man could cuckold a woman. She might have thought the pregnancy was due to an arranged medical procedure when it was actually due to sex outside the partnership. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/327 "2021-03-08T23:23:10Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > So surely a trans woman could be cuckolded but not a trans man? If the definition of “cuckolding” is taken to be the abovementioned rather narrow specification “getting pregnant and bearing a child as a result of cheating on one’s spouse”, then thorny\_locust is correct that a cisgender woman can cuckold her husband but a cisgender man can’t cuckold his wife. A transgender man, however, can cuckold his wife. As I noted above, I think this is a confusingly specific restriction on the term “cuckold”, but hey, language gonna language. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/328 "2021-03-08T23:38:22Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > then thorny\_locust is correct that a cisgender woman can cuckold her husband It wasn’t my claim originally. I was in fact originally objecting to the claim, because I wasn’t using that narrow definition of ‘cuckold’ and had never heard it applied to humans. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2021, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/329 "2021-03-08T23:50:27Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Possibly. My point was that a trans man could cuckold a woman. She might have thought the pregnancy was due to an arranged medical procedure when it was actually due to sex outside the partnership. Oh, I understand now. That reminds me of the artificial insemination cases where the doctor used his own sperm, which is a similar sort of deception. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/330 "2021-03-09T00:04:25Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I wasn’t using that narrow definition of ‘cuckold’ and had never heard it applied to humans. Well count me as another who has _only_ heard that definition in terms of humans. I’ve always thought a “cuckold” was a male who was tricked into raising kids from another male. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/331 "2021-03-09T00:47:41Z")
I presume that’s where the MRA term “cuck” came from, but now it refers to any guy who treats a woman like a human being. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/332 "2021-03-09T00:49:56Z")
Huh? What the hell is a MRA and you got a cite for that last part? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/333 "2021-03-09T01:54:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What the hell is a MRA and you got a cite for that last part? “MRA” = “Men’s Rights Activist”, generally a supporter of anti-feminism backlash and/or outright misogyny. [Exhaustive analysis of the evolution of the term “cuck”.](https://www.timsquirrell.com/blog/2017/7/6/slurred-lines-cuckography-or-how-to-analyse-the-genealogy-and-spread-of-a-word-across-reddit) > [@](#): > > Cuck began its life as cuckold, and when exactly its shortening became _de rigeur_ will likely remain a mystery unless any intrepid data adventurer can scrape the entire log of 4chan from 2013/14 without losing the will to live. Looking at the normalised graph above, you can see that the misogynists of TheRedPill have been using “cuckold” since their subreddit began, and that it appears to have been shortened to “cuck” in 4chan at some point in 2014. The term emerged in the manosphere, and its misogynistic connotations have stuck with it ever since. > > It became popular during GamerGate as a kind of misogynistic slur, levelled at one man who appeared to have “allowed” his ex-girlfriend to sleep with other men. From there it quickly morphed into a catch-all term of abuse for men that might otherwise be referred to as “betas” (though that term has another history behind it), with connotations of disempowerment and adherence to feminist or progressive ideals that rendered them traitors to mankind. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/334 "2021-03-09T04:14:41Z")
Look, because a few asshole 4Chans and gamergate losers use a word that way, it doesnt change it’s real meaning. Ie a spouse that is being cheated on.I assume you dont think men that cheat on their wives are a guy _who treats a woman like a human being._ In fact I suspect strongly the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/335 "2021-03-09T05:19:10Z")
I’m specifically referring to the gamergate usage, “cuck.” For some the meaning has evolved. I’ve never heard anyone use the word “cuck” in a way that wasn’t misogynist. It’s an attack on the masculinity of men who support women. ISTM that “cuck” and “cuckhold” have two different meanings. I wouldn’t use the term “cuckhold” myself because it seems like an attack on men whose wives cheat on them, and blaming the victim is a crappy thing to do. I might use it to describe the fetish because there it’s used in a different context. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/336 "2021-03-09T07:57:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Look, because a few asshole 4Chans and gamergate losers use a word that way, it doesnt change it’s real meaning. Ie a spouse that is being cheated on.I assume you dont think men that cheat on their wives are a guy _who treats a woman like a human being._ In fact I suspect strongly the opposite. I’m amazed you’ve never seen it before, it’s certainly not just 4chan. Spice\_Weasel is right, ‘cuckold’ is used in the original ‘cheated on husband’ sense, but I’ve never seen ‘cuck’ used with any other meaning but the misogynist one. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/337 "2021-03-09T10:53:13Z")
If anyone cares, “cuckold” comes from “cuckoo,” the bird, because they lay their eggs in other birds’ nests, and thereby trick other birds into raising their chicks. So, probably at one time, “cuckold” did in fact refer specifically to a man who was raising his non-biological child, as opposed to one who had been cheated on without a child resulting-- and technically, it wasn’t his wife who had cuckolded him, but the man she’d slept with (or been raped by, or by whatever means she became pregnant). ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/338 "2021-03-09T12:33:46Z")
I mentioned that earlier, it’s in the Wikipedia entry too. I’ve heard it used with both the ‘being cheated on’ and the ‘deceived into raising another man’s child’ meanings, but I assumed **Jay\_Z** meant the latter since he said only men could be cuckolded. The former meaning seems to be a lot more common in certain other countries, than in the main English-speaking ones. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/339 "2021-03-09T14:59:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Look, because a few asshole 4Chans and gamergate losers use a word that way, it doesnt change it’s real meaning. Some times a tiny but loud segment of a populace can hijack a word’s meaning. Look how _patriot_ has drifted from the original definition in the last few years. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839/340 "2021-03-09T15:29:48Z")
(side theme continued) > [@DemonTree](#): > > Spice\_Weasel is right, ‘cuckold’ is used in the original ‘cheated on husband’ sense, but I’ve never seen ‘cuck’ used with any other meaning but the misogynist one. Or in the political/social sense, to deride someone for not being among the “strong” group, by association with being unmanly. (/side theme continued) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-vs-women-take-no-for-a-answer/933839.md?page=18)