# Men, we're facing a crisis with button up shirts **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2014, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033 "2014-11-19T02:20:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/41 "2014-11-19T15:51:12Z")
\*\*GrumpyBunny \*\*beat me to it. Sorry, guys, you’ll get no sympathy from the ladyfolks. “Wah! I wanna be able to buy clothes without trying them on! I wanna run into a store, grab the first thing I see on a hanger, and scan my credit card without so much as breaking stride!” To us, this thread sounds more like “Wah! I no longer receive a $50K bonus with each weekly paycheck! Waaahhh!” I think it’s interesting that this trend is now hitting the men’s department, too. Wonder what brought about the change? Sloppy manufacturing and looser standards and specs, like \*\*Brendon Small \*\*mentioned? ---
**Author:** ![skylyn12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@skylyn12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skylyn12)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/42 "2014-11-19T15:55:56Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Amen. Current men’s fashion is a much needed breath of fresh air. Another amen. Plus I like the fact that being in shape is actually noticeable. Whereas with past fashions everyone looked like a slob… ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/43 "2014-11-19T15:57:46Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > \*\*GrumpyBunny \*\*beat me to it. Sorry, guys, you’ll get no sympathy from the ladyfolks. “Wah! I wanna be able to buy clothes without trying them on! I wanna run into a store, grab the first thing I see on a hanger, and scan my credit card without so much as breaking stride!” > > To us, this thread sounds more like “Wah! I no longer receive a $50K bonus with each weekly paycheck! Waaahhh!” > > I think it’s interesting that this trend is now hitting the men’s department, too. Wonder what brought about the change? Sloppy manufacturing and looser standards and specs, like \*\*Brendon Small \*\*mentioned? Did you really have to bring up the bonus? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/44 "2014-11-19T16:12:10Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > \*\*GrumpyBunny \*\*beat me to it. Sorry, guys, you’ll get no sympathy from the ladyfolks. “Wah! I wanna be able to buy clothes without trying them on! I wanna run into a store, grab the first thing I see on a hanger, and scan my credit card without so much as breaking stride!” A Russian farmer’s cow died. He was very upset and didn’t know how his family would survive the winter. Later that day he was down by the lake trying to catch some food. He gets a bite and up he pulls a golden fish. “Hello! I am a magical fish” it said, “throw me back and I will grant you a wish” “OK” said the farmer throwing the fish back, “I wish my neighbor’s cow would die!” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/45 "2014-11-19T16:17:43Z")
The last time I was at JC Penny’s, I was standing at a display of shirts, obviously puzzling over what the sizes mean… and a sales clerk suddenly appears with a tape measure and asks if he can help. A couple of quick measurements and he tells me what I need, and that’s the best-fitting dress shirt I’ve ever had. I don’t know if my results are typical, but there are stores out there where the employees are helpful like that. Find one. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/46 "2014-11-19T16:31:40Z")
Speaking as someone who has given up hope of finding shirts that fit in the neck _and_ the shoulders _and the waist_, I feel your pain. But if you have a 17" neck and a 44" chest and a 35" waist, I might as well be Quasimodo the Hunchback when it comes to buying clothes off the rack. And it’s been that way for forty years. And it’s no better with pants. I have tried on three pairs of pants, all listed as 35/32, of which the first was too long, the second fit my waist like a parachute, and the third I could scarcely get above my knees. I wound up buying two pair of jeans - a 33/34 and a 36/30, both of which fit perfectly. My wife laughs at me for hanging onto clothes - but at least they fit. Regards, SHodan ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/47 "2014-11-19T16:45:08Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > _falls over laughing_ > > Welcome to what it’s like for women to buy clothing. 😃 Absofuckinglutely. There are no standard sizes for women, and I am not sure there ever were. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/48 "2014-11-19T16:50:24Z")
Oh, (maybe this is only women), try finding “your” fit at some supposedly timeless stores like L.L.Bean. Which are you? Modern? Classic? Regular? Duh, what? I bought some jeans that were described in exactly the same terms as the last pairs I bought three years previous and they were about a size down, in fit. Meanwhile, I myself was not a size down. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/49 "2014-11-19T17:00:08Z")
I am about your same height and weight, and I have a gut. I pretty much only wear button ups. For me JC Penny has a good selection. I actually fit pretty well in the Stafford fitted shirts. For short sleeve casual I use Red Kap. Our proportions could be very different though. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/50 "2014-11-19T17:08:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The last time I was at JC Penny’s, I was standing at a display of shirts, obviously puzzling over what the sizes mean… and a sales clerk suddenly appears with a tape measure and asks if he can help. A couple of quick measurements and he tells me what I need, and that’s the best-fitting dress shirt I’ve ever had. > > I don’t know if my results are typical, but there are stores out there where the employees are helpful like that. Find one. That’s for a fitted dress shirt. I wish more stores carried fitted shirts with a less formal fabric to them, if that makes sense. I want a button up shirt I can wear with khakis or with jeans. Such a shirt is usually sized S, M, L, XL, etc. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/51 "2014-11-19T17:14:33Z")
I haven’t been able to find off the rack dress shirts that don’t fit like tents for years now. I doubt the OP’s rant is valid, but if it is I’ll be another of the many folks celebrating the idea of mid-market clothes not made solely for obese people. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/52 "2014-11-19T17:42:04Z")
So a large shirt is for obese people now. Gotcha. I was not aware adult men are supposed to be the size of 11 year olds their entire lives. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/53 "2014-11-19T17:45:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Speaking as someone who has given up hope of finding shirts that fit in the neck _and_ the shoulders _and the waist_, I feel your pain. But if you have a 17" neck and a 44" chest and a 35" waist, I might as well be Quasimodo the Hunchback when it comes to buying clothes off the rack. And it’s been that way for forty years. > > And it’s no better with pants. I have tried on three pairs of pants, all listed as 35/32, of which the first was too long, the second fit my waist like a parachute, and the third I could scarcely get above my knees. I wound up buying two pair of jeans - a 33/34 and a 36/30, both of which fit perfectly. > > My wife laughs at me for hanging onto clothes - but at least they fit. > > Regards, > SHodan Me too. But try finding pants with a 29" (or other odd length) inseam. I used to wear 30s, but age has shrunk me a bit, so 30s drag the ground at the heel. My waistline has expanded, as well, and for some reason manufacturers think that if you are a 42-44 waist, you must need a 34 inseam. Most stores are catering to the young and fit, so larger sizes are scarce. As a result, most of my jeans are getting pretty ratty looking, not that I really give a rat’s ass any more. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/54 "2014-11-19T17:46:43Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > I’m 39. My point being is that it’s not just The Gap, but rather seemingly every brand you’d find at a major mall. The problem isn’t some unlikely “skinny trend”. The problem is that you’re almost 40 and _still shopping at The Gap_. Of course nothing fits; you’re basically shopping in the kiddie department. If you must do your shopping at the mall, at least move up to a store that also sells sports jackets/businessware. JC Penny’s at least, or Macy’s or Nordstrom. And buy shirts that have sizes given in numbers for body measurements, not “L” or “XXXXL”. You’ll probably have to switch to “Fitted” shirts – because most standard sizes now are designed to fit someone with the proportions of an overfilled basketball. And women: when you had your meeting and decided to share the joy of Vanity Sizing with us men, I really wish you’d just have gone for passing along an assortment of venereal diseases or something. It would have been less painful, really. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/55 "2014-11-19T18:05:40Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > The problem isn’t some unlikely “skinny trend”. The problem is that you’re almost 40 and _still shopping at The Gap_. Of course nothing fits; you’re basically shopping in the kiddie department. > > If you must do your shopping at the mall, at least move up to a store that also sells sports jackets/businessware. JC Penny’s at least, or Macy’s or Nordstrom. And buy shirts that have sizes given in numbers for body measurements, not “L” or “XXXXL”. You’ll probably have to switch to “Fitted” shirts – because most standard sizes now are designed to fit someone with the proportions of an overfilled basketball. > > And women: when you had your meeting and decided to share the joy of Vanity Sizing with us men, I really wish you’d just have gone for passing along an assortment of venereal diseases or something. It would have been less painful, really. Um, I shopped at The Gap last night on a whim. My other posts show that I have been noticing the trend shopping Nautica and Perry Ellis (at Macy’s and at JC Penney). The Gap was just icing on the cake. I can’t believe the others here that have not noticed the skinny trend moving from just pants to shirts too. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/56 "2014-11-19T18:09:21Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I haven’t been able to find off the rack dress shirts that don’t fit like tents for years now. > > I doubt the OP’s rant is valid, but if it is I’ll be another of the many folks celebrating the idea of mid-market clothes not made solely for obese people. Even the fitted ones? I always did well with “European cut” too (that was for when I was skinnier. Those cuts are readily available off the rack, except in the cheapest places. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/57 "2014-11-19T18:10:05Z")
Ok, I give up. I’m going to go all Mark Zuckerberg and just wear a tee shirt with a hoodie. Someone please PM me when the skinny fad has died away like the nasty disease that it is. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/58 "2014-11-19T18:15:40Z")
But it seems like there’s 2 opposite trends. Vanity sizing and skinny fad are opposite, right? Personally, I definitely disagree with people who say similar about men’s pant sizing. 32/32 are hard measurements. The width of the leg may be skinny or “relaxed” but I can generally trust the waist width and length. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/59 "2014-11-19T18:29:56Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > But it seems like there’s 2 opposite trends. Vanity sizing and skinny fad are opposite, right? > > Personally, I definitely disagree with people who say similar about men’s pant sizing. 32/32 are hard measurements. The width of the leg may be skinny or “relaxed” but I can generally trust the waist width and length. Correct. But as someone else noted, that 32 waist can differ due to the manufacturing tolerances. So a “32” waist may actually measure 31 or 33. That’s why I always try on pants. For shirts, it’s like they’re only offering skinny jeans. Seriously, I’m not a big guy, but do have a chest. It literally feel like my shoulders will tear if I bend down to put a shoe on with my hands. It would be interesting to see how an XL would fit. I imagine the neck would be too big and the sleeves too long. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/60 "2014-11-19T18:45:26Z")
Give these [del]skinny[/del] underweight and unhealthy metrosexuals a few years and they will be complaining here, too, the shirts don’t fit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033.md?page=4)