# Men, we're facing a crisis with button up shirts **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2014, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033 "2014-11-19T02:20:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/61 "2014-11-19T18:50:48Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Give these [del]skinny[/del] underweight and unhealthy metrosexuals a few years and they will be complaining here, too, the shirts don’t fit. Metrosexual? Did I pass out and wake up in 2001? I’m 40, for the record. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/62 "2014-11-19T18:56:07Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Metrosexual? Did I pass out and wake up in 2001? > > I’m 40, for the record. The last metrosexual held in captivity died in 2005 (or 2007?). Too bad they couldn’t seem to get them to mate. I hear they are encountering the same issue with Hipsters held in captivity. Something about the curled mustaches getting caught in suspenders or something. Hopefully they stuff some so future societies can view them. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/63 "2014-11-19T19:04:45Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Personally, I definitely disagree with people who say similar about men’s pant sizing. 32/32 are hard measurements. The width of the leg may be skinny or “relaxed” but I can generally trust the waist width and length. Have you ever measured them? This guy at Esquire did and found that a nominal 36" waist pant actually ranged from 37" at H&M to a whopping 41" at Old Navy. > **[Are Your Pants Making You Fat?](https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a8386/pants-size-chart-090710/)** > > Your waistline is not a scientific measurement at major clothing retailers. The consequences for your health could be serious. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/64 "2014-11-19T19:31:32Z")
It’s not perfect for us short smaller folk either. Pants - most brands I need a 29 waist and 29 inseam, some a 30 waist will do. Finding anything 29 inseam is well nigh impossible and 29 waist is almost as difficult unless I go to the kids section. Yes, the trim cut is mildly snug on the shoulders, upper arms and chest, but others are not only baggy about the midsection, the bottom of the arm opening would come below mid-chest. Ever since I was young and spent a lot of my High School wrestling career bridging with my neck to keep from being pinned (again) getting shirts that fit my neck has meant baggy elsewhere. The best I ever did in clothes was shopping at Uniqlo in Japan when visiting my son there. Did get a salesman at Nordstroms who knew what brands to put me in though that did pretty well (just shortening the legs some) … so another vote for Nordstroms. ---
**Author:** ![Clawdio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@Clawdio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clawdio)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/65 "2014-11-19T19:43:23Z")
> [@skylyn12](#): > > Another amen. Plus I like the fact that being in shape is actually noticeable. Whereas with past fashions everyone looked like a slob… Me three… or four or whatever. I’m 34 years old, 5’9" and about 160 pounds, and even with the current trend of clothes that are made to fit, about 75% of the time a medium shirt makes me look like a child trying on his parents clothes so i end up buying smalls. I always wonder “what the hell do the guys that are actually small wear?”, wait… am i small, i always thought i was at least medium… dammit. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/66 "2014-11-19T20:10:48Z")
I too deplore the “skinny” trend. I see guys all the time wearing suits that make them look like Peewee Herman. WTF? And the same with shirts. I’m pretty thin (6’2", about 165 pounds) but even I have found that some brands of clothes just look ridiculous. I’ve found a few that are acceptable. For nice dress shirts, Brooks Brothers shirts are the same as they ever were. They also have a “slim fit” size that really is cut for thin men, and doesn’t give that Peewee Herman look. For everyday shirts (mostly buttondowns, in my case), Land’s End is fine. I have a bunch of their shirts (I think they’re called “Hyde Park” or something like that). But I can’t shop at J. Crew, or Bloomingdale’s, or anywhere that’s sort of fashionable. Just doesn’t work. So I wear the same kind of clothes I’ve worn since high school. Funny, I had dinner with my sister the other night, who’s about the same age (we’re in our fifties). She commented that everything I was wearing could have been bought in 1968. Or 1978. Or 1988, etc. I was wearing Levi’s, a blue button-down shirt, a corduroy sport jacket, and Clark’s desert boots. I was a bit horrified to realize that she was absolutely right. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/67 "2014-11-19T20:25:27Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I too deplore the “skinny” trend. I see guys all the time wearing suits that make them look like Peewee Herman. WTF? And the same with shirts. > > I’m pretty thin (6’2", about 165 pounds) but even I have found that some brands of clothes just look ridiculous. I’ve found a few that are acceptable. > > For nice dress shirts, Brooks Brothers shirts are the same as they ever were. They also have a “slim fit” size that really is cut for thin men, and doesn’t give that Peewee Herman look. > > For everyday shirts (mostly buttondowns, in my case), Land’s End is fine. I have a bunch of their shirts (I think they’re called “Hyde Park” or something like that). > > But I can’t shop at J. Crew, or Bloomingdale’s, or anywhere that’s sort of fashionable. Just doesn’t work. So I wear the same kind of clothes I’ve worn since high school. > > Funny, I had dinner with my sister the other night, who’s about the same age (we’re in our fifties). She commented that everything I was wearing could have been bought in 1968. Or 1978. Or 1988, etc. I was wearing Levi’s, a blue button-down shirt, a corduroy sport jacket, and Clark’s desert boots. I was a bit horrified to realize that she was absolutely right. I never think to check Brooks Brothers or Lands End. There’s a BB outlet not far from me, too. FYI, for others, check out this [Nautica website](http://www.nautica.com/mens-shirts/#uuid=&display=159&sz=99) showing all the “slim fit” shirts. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/68 "2014-11-19T20:33:12Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Have you ever measured them? This guy at Esquire did and found that a nominal 36" waist pant actually ranged from 37" at H&M to a whopping 41" at Old Navy. > > [http://www.esquire.com/blogs/mens-fashion/pants-size-chart-090710](http://www.esquire.com/blogs/mens-fashion/pants-size-chart-090710) I like his comments: > [@](#): > > Should inches be different than miles per hour? Do highway signs make us feel better by informing us that Chicago is but 45 miles away when it’s really 72? Multiplication tables don’t yield to make us feel better about badness at math; why should pants make us feel better about badness at health? Are we all so many emperors with no clothes? He’s so right. Was bunch of bologna that is, intentionally trying to fool people into feeling better about their pant size. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/69 "2014-11-19T21:15:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > It’s not perfect for us short smaller folk either. > > Pants - most brands I need a 29 waist and 29 inseam, some a 30 waist will do. Finding anything 29 inseam is well nigh impossible and 29 waist is almost as difficult unless I go to the kids section. You might try Penney’s; they usually have at least _some_ 29 inseam in both jeans and slacks. Sears is hopeless, as is the Levi outlet store locally. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/70 "2014-11-19T21:44:30Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > I can’t believe the others here that have not noticed the skinny trend moving from just pants to shirts too. Oh, I’ve definitely noticed it too. I get that fashion trends change over time, etc. But it seems like my choices are Pee-Wee Herman, or Grampa Simpson, with very little half-way decent middle ground. I want to look sharp, but not like I’m trying to dress “young”. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/71 "2014-11-19T21:57:20Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > Sizes really make no sense. > > I also tried on 3 different pairs of pants tonight (different companies, too). > > All were size 36/30. > > One was too loose in the waste (could pull them down while buttoned). > > One was too tight and could barely button. > > One fit normally, so I bought them. So now you’re on the right track – you have been trained to actually try on your clothes before you buy them. (I buy my stuff on-line and know I may have to send it back.) And it’s not even just fit – it’s whether the color and style are flattering too. ---
**Author:** ![Recusant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@Recusant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recusant)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/72 "2014-11-19T22:06:11Z")
There’s a simple, easy solution here, Sparky: nudism. > [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > \*\*GrumpyBunny \*\*beat me to it. Sorry, guys, you’ll get no sympathy from the ladyfolks. “Wah! I wanna be able to buy clothes without trying them on! I wanna run into a store, grab the first thing I see on a hanger, and scan my credit card without so much as breaking stride!” > > To us, this thread sounds more like “Wah! I no longer receive a $50K bonus with each weekly paycheck! Waaahhh!” > > I think it’s interesting that this trend is now hitting the men’s department, too. Wonder what brought about the change? Sloppy manufacturing and looser standards and specs, like \*\*Brendon Small \*\*mentioned? No you fool, no! Let go of your spite! Spite leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate (via a roundabout route) leads to the dark side! And do you know what falling to the dark side leads to? … Getting played by Hayden Christensen. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/73 "2014-11-20T01:14:50Z")
Crisis resolved. I returned the 3 shirts, then stopped by JC Penney on the way out and bought a shirt by Izod. Got home and tried it on and am happy to report that it fits perfectly. Next crisis: why are belt holes spaced so far apart? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/74 "2014-11-20T01:20:25Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > He’s so right. Was bunch of bologna that is, intentionally trying to fool people into feeling better about their pant size. It’s bad enough that a woman’s size 00 is roughly equivalent to a size 6 from forty years ago. At least it’s an arbitrary unitless measurement. A “thirty six inch waist” pair of pants being almost 15% off is taking vanity to a whole new level. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/75 "2014-11-20T01:43:16Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > Crisis resolved. > > I returned the 3 shirts, then stopped by JC Penney on the way out and bought a shirt by Izod. Got home and tried it on and am happy to report that it fits perfectly. > > Next crisis: why are belt holes spaced so far apart? Belt holes? Are those the things you use to contain the pants holder-upper? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/76 "2014-11-20T02:19:35Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > Crisis resolved. > > I returned the 3 shirts, then stopped by JC Penney on the way out and bought a shirt by Izod. Got home and tried it on and am happy to report that it fits perfectly. > > Next crisis: why are belt holes spaced so far apart? Ha ha! Suck it, women! Men can still shop easier! To that last bit, that spikey thing on the swiss army knife all men are issued at birth? That’s a belt hole puncher. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/77 "2014-11-20T03:30:20Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Belt holes? Are those the things you use to contain the pants holder-upper? Oh, ha! I thought you were talking about belt loops on your pants. I couldn’t figure out why you were calling them belt holes. Time for me to hit the sack. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/78 "2014-11-20T05:15:33Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > \*\*GrumpyBunny \*\*beat me to it. Sorry, guys, you’ll get no sympathy from the ladyfolks. {snip} Please don’t generalize. I’m a woman and **sparky!** has my sympathy. FWIW, I’m short of stature and short-waisted. On me, most women’s slacks/jeans have “excess” fabric at the waist that bunches up. I found out that size 16 boys’ jeans, preferably “boot leg” or “loose fit”, fit me quite well. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/79 "2014-11-20T05:20:12Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > … I found out that size 16 boys’ jeans, preferably “boot leg” or “loose fit”, fit me quite well. Heh. I am a male youngest of five with three older sisters. It took me years to realize why so many of my shirts buttoned the other way. They fit fine. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033/80 "2014-11-20T05:29:18Z")
Anyone remember Levi’s “Come Back! Please come back!” ads a couple of decades ago? Levi’s could never quite figure it out the a woman’s butt was NOT the same shape as a man’s. When the boomers grew up and bought real clothes, they were stuck with their over-priced work clothes. In desperation, they came up with “relaxed fit” “Classic 501’s”. The ads were aimed at the long-gone boomer market: hey look! Now we can fit your fat ass! You can finally be cool again with REAL LEVI’s! In the late 60’s Levi Strauss and Co. went from being good quality farm and factory wear to being so chic among the “rebel” youth. They allowed Macy’s to sell them. Not Sears or Penney’s. There was a Federal suit resulting in a Consent Decree whereby they would stop their anti-competitive practices (including extreme price fixing). In 1985 I did a contract job there. The chatter was "yeah, this place is going down the tubes, but - JUST WAIT until the Consent Decree expires - then we can go back to price gouging, and the young people will all come back (the rich ones!), and it’ll be like 1969 again!. I did another job there from 1986-89. No more Consent Decree, but… _something’s wrong!_ the young folks are NOT flocking back! The high-end stores don’t want exclusive rights anymore. Loved it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-were-facing-a-crisis-with-button-up-shirts/705033.md?page=5)