# Men, what \*would\* be a fair solution for unwanted child support? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 4, 2013, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480 "2013-05-04T09:19:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/281 "2013-05-11T17:43:24Z")
No one has touched on the idea presented by **elfkin477** that we just ban abortions, so women don’t have a choice that men don’t. I think that’s a fantastic point that gets to the real heart of this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/282 "2013-05-11T18:01:16Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > I’d agree with that. But if a man doesn’t know he has a bun in the oven some where, not so much. If he doesn’t know, he isn’t paying for it. > [@CarnalK](#): > > Oh yes, god forbid that along with getting the final decision on whether a pregnancy proceeds that they should also take some extra responsibility to avoid an unwanted pregnancy in the first place. > > Women have a number of non-permanent and relatively easy BC methods, but you think it’d be better if every guy got a vasectomy at 16 or something cuz hey, equality and stuff. Show me where I said that, even once. Each person in a consensual sexual relationship bears the burden of protecting his or her own self interests; neither party owes the other a positive outcome. If you don’t want a baby, don’t make one. Anyone who walks into a sexual encounter expecting the other person to look out for his or her self interests is foolish and gambling with the rest of his or her life. No one is _owed_ a worry-free sexual experience. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/283 "2013-05-11T18:06:20Z")
So why are you pissed at me then? I said the same thing: take responsibility for your own fertility. For women, than means being on the pill if you don’t want to conceive. For men, it means condoms every time, and vasectomy if you don’t want children at all. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/284 "2013-05-11T18:17:46Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Show me where I said that, even once. Each person in a consensual sexual relationship bears the burden of protecting his or her own self interests; neither party owes the other a positive outcome. If you don’t want a baby, don’t make one. > > Anyone who walks into a sexual encounter expecting the other person to look out for his or her self interests is foolish and gambling with the rest of his or her life. No one is _owed_ a worry-free sexual experience. Women have more reliable non permanent methods available to them. In a monogamous relationship, it’s simply better for the woman to take the lead on it. And now I don’t remember who was throwing around “dont want a baby then get a vasectomy” around. If it wasn’t you then apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/285 "2013-05-11T18:34:51Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Women have more reliable non permanent methods available to them. In a monogamous relationship, it’s simply better for the woman to take the lead on it. Better for whom? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/286 "2013-05-11T18:40:58Z")
For everyone who doesn’t want a baby, obviously. Putting on a condom is not some huge trauma, but theres a chance of a mistake every time. Putting your pills beside your toothbrush or getting an IUD (even better an IUD with slow release progestogen) is not done in the heat of the moment and simply more reliable. I guess your idea is that PLUS a condom every time? Or what? ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/287 "2013-05-11T18:53:30Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > For everyone who doesn’t want a baby, obviously. Putting on a condom is not some huge trauma, but theres a chance of a mistake every time. Putting your pills beside your toothbrush or getting an IUD (even better an IUD with slow release progestogen) is not done in the heat of the moment and simply more reliable. I guess your idea is that PLUS a condom every time? Or what? Pretty much. Or withdrawal, the rhythm method, or whatever gamble the male partner feels most confident with. Expecting your partner to take full responsibility for contraception is naive at best; foolish at worst. No one should demand, hope, or expect that his/her partner has their best interests at heart, and if the idea of a baby is the worst possible outcome for sex, then the only person to blame if conception occurs is the person who expected his or her intentions to be honored and did nothing to prevent it. Take this casual conversation about sex and birth control to court and see how it goes. “But judge, she told me she was on the pill, so I took zero measures to prevent my sperm from fertilizing an egg, so I shouldn’t have to pay for a child I didn’t want. I just wanted a free, safe screw. It’s her duty to respect my wishes and not get pregnant.” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/288 "2013-05-11T19:29:31Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Pretty much. Or withdrawal, the rhythm method, or whatever gamble the male partner feels most confident with. Expecting your partner to take full responsibility for contraception is naive at best; foolish at worst. No one should demand, hope, or expect that his/her partner has their best interests at heart, OK, you enjoy never even daring to hope that your partner might have your best interests at heart. Personally, I know my girlfriend has an IUD and I am not going to jump through a bunch of extra hoops to get an extra .01% less chance of a pregnancy. If babies are still a worry when the IUD’s lifespan is over, I will get the vasectomy and that’ll be that. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/289 "2013-05-11T19:42:56Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > If babies are still a worry when the IUD’s lifespan is over, I will get the vasectomy and that’ll be that. Who could ask for more than that, really? Those in committed relationships should work out whatever arrangement for birth control works best for both, up to an including a contigency plan for pregnancy. I’ve personally taken care of all my birth control needs my entire adult life, and I have expected my partner to do the same with the outcome I expected. If any partner lied or been mistaken about the reliability of his vasectomy or condoms, I’d deal with the consquences without placing blame, as I’m the only person 100% responsible for my own fertility. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/290 "2013-05-11T19:43:47Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Take this casual conversation about sex and birth control to court and see how it goes. “But judge, she told me she was on the pill, so I took zero measures to prevent my sperm from fertilizing an egg, so I shouldn’t have to pay for a child I didn’t want. I just wanted a free, safe screw. It’s her duty to respect my wishes and not get pregnant.” If a woman specifically lied to me about wanting a baby, my method of getting out of paying for it wouldn’t include convincing the judge of that. I would just move, which would suck but not as much as an 18 yr payment plan. But don’t worry, I would leave early enough so she can still have an abortion if she so chooses. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/291 "2013-05-11T19:51:56Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > If a woman specifically lied to me about wanting a baby, my method of getting out of paying for it wouldn’t include convincing the judge of that. I would just move, which would suck but not as much as an 18 yr payment plan. But don’t worry, I would leave early enough so she can still have an abortion if she so chooses. As is your prerogative, just as the custodial parent, court and social work system in place has the prerogative to pursue support from the absentee father in order to spare innocent taxpayers of the burden of your carelessness. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/292 "2013-05-11T19:54:03Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > And now I don’t remember who was throwing around “dont want a baby then get a vasectomy” around. If it wasn’t you then apologies. It was me and the reason is that I have several male friends in their late 20s who have gone this route because they want to have lots of fun, wild sex without the risk of baby. They took ownership in their own fertility. For the record, when I have sex with any of these guys, we still use condoms and the pull out as they are finishing, despite them being fixed, just in case. Why wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/293 "2013-05-11T19:54:25Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > Oh for crying out loud, yes! Get on the damn pill! And quit whining so much. > > It does not, in the vast majority of women, have any side effects whatsoever, except to make menstruation absent or pain-free (go pill!) And most women who do get side effects of the unpleasant kind need to switch brands, not go off the pill. > > If you have regular partner, make him pay half, same as with condoms and emergency BC. If you are hooking up, chalk it up to TANSTAAFL (but make him pay for the condoms you are of course using anyway, if you want to split hairs. I’d prefer my own pack, but that’s just me). If you can’t afford the pill, but want to partake in hook-up culture anyway, you need to budget or switch to non-PIV hookups. > > And vote for sensible people who will support making the pill free or subsidized, especially for women under 25, a perfectly simple measure which cut unwanted pregnancy down by about 1/4 in one fell swoop. > > -responsible woman who’s been happily on the pill for 10 years, and has never had an unwanted pregnancy. Funny how that works. I’m all for having free or subsidized birth control available for everyone. However, I got pregnant on the Pill, got pregnant while using condoms AND contraceptive foam together, and got pregnant with an IUD. Three pregnancies in two years, and yes, I was using the birth control as directed. I had two miscarriages and one live birth. Then I used abstinence until I managed to convince a few doctors that yes, I DID want my tubes tied, and I DID understand that this was permanent. > [@Ibanez](#): > > I’d agree with that. But if a man doesn’t know he has a bun in the oven some where, not so much. If a man actually, you know, keeps in touch with women he’s had sex with, he would probably figure out that a woman is pregnant. If he’s just doing the fuck’n’runs advocated by some men, then yeah, he might not know that one of his sperm found an egg. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/294 "2013-05-11T20:07:32Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > No one has touched on the idea presented by **elfkin477** that we just ban abortions, so women don’t have a choice that men don’t. I think that’s a fantastic point that gets to the real heart of this issue. I’m interested in this as well. Men who think it’s not fair that women get more choices post-conception than men, would you lose this annoyance if women simply didn’t have the choice? Would you then accept that both parties had equal responsibility and cheerfully support any unwanted kids? ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/295 "2013-05-11T20:22:17Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > I’m interested in this as well. Men who think it’s not fair that women get more choices post-conception than men, would you lose this annoyance if women simply didn’t have the choice? Would you then accept that both parties had equal responsibility and cheerfully support any unwanted kids? Gosh, me too… what’s the answer?? I can’t even guess. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/296 "2013-05-11T20:56:21Z")
**Lynn** I’m not entirely sure what your comment means here. Of course the pill isn’t 100%. But it’s damn sight better than nothing. Isn’t that reason enough to be on it for most people? I’m sorry you had such a rough time of it, but…well? Sometimes babies happen. Every sexually active adult should know that, and act accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/297 "2013-05-11T20:58:54Z")
> [@Septima](#): > > Sometimes babies happen. Every sexually active adult should know that, and act accordingly. Even…men?? ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/298 "2013-05-11T21:18:17Z")
Oh you can still see my posts, can you? That means you ignored my previous two on purpose. Just so I know where I’ve got you. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/299 "2013-05-11T21:22:40Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I’m all for having free or subsidized birth control available for everyone. > > However, I got pregnant on the Pill, got pregnant while using condoms AND contraceptive foam together, and got pregnant with an IUD. Three pregnancies in two years, and yes, I was using the birth control as directed. I had two miscarriages and one live birth. Then I used abstinence until I managed to convince a few doctors that yes, I DID want my tubes tied, and I DID understand that this was permanent.. Well according toTroppus’ reply to me above you were still careless as getting pregnant=careless. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/300 "2013-05-11T21:37:42Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well according toTroppus’ reply to me above you were still careless as getting pregnant=careless. I’ll answer for myself: yep. Made a big mistake assuming that I was taking the pill properly, and didn’t realize that I’d vomited during that 14 day period when my body was primed to ovulate. The partner I loved and respected was adamantly against raising children from the beginning, and the mistake was all my fault as I’d assured him that I was taking oral contraceptives properly, so I had a surgical abortion. The downside was the hormone storm I experienced post-procedure which had me questioning what I wanted from life, who I wanted to be with, and led to the break-up of the best relationship I ever had because I had to admit I wanted to be a mother worse than I wanted to share a life with a really awesome guy. Get it? I loved that guy enough to be trusted to end a pregnancy he didn’t support, and loved him enough to spare him a lifetime of obligation. And lost him in the bargain. Lucky for him. Because I was a hair from going the other way, as the hormones and the realization that I was so near the end of my reproductive window had every cell in my body screaming to have a child, and legally… I could have done so with or without his consent. And had I chosen to raise a child with the DNA of the man I loved, I would have been able to do so with or without his cooperation. Listen to me; I know what I’m talking about. Those pregnancy hormones are overwhelming, all-consuming, and life-determining. And that ain’t my fault because I have the womb; he could have used a condom, he could have had the vasectomy which caused him not a single twinge of regret or missed work and spared us both the psychological trauma of a near child and a horrendous break-up. He’s happy as a childless man, and I love the child I conceived with a willing partner, but it could have gone the other way and the only person to blame would be the partner who failed to protect his or her gonads. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480.md?page=16)