# Men, what \*would\* be a fair solution for unwanted child support? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 4, 2013, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480 "2013-05-04T09:19:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/141 "2013-05-06T20:59:02Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > It’s not quite as serious, as a woman can’t be made into a parent by Mr Condom-Fiddler, as a man can by a woman pretending to be on the pill, but still. I’m really starting to think you aren’t totally clear on how babby is formed. > [@blindboyard](#): > > Feel free to abstain. Oh, so you have no statistics or facts, just your presumption that women are siphoning your cum out of trash cans. K. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/142 "2013-05-06T20:59:49Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > But seriously: if you’re so afraid of someone stealing your sperm to live the high life off of your child support riches, why wouldn’t you just get snipped? Problem solved. Because perhaps he would like to one day choose to have a child with a woman of his choice. We do not require a woman to have a child with every man she has sex with, do we? ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/143 "2013-05-06T21:00:04Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Because it’s one of the wonderfull rights of living in an free society with our current level of technology. We have the technology through birth control and abortion to make sex relatively risk and repercussion free for the first time in human society and it’s an absolutely marvelous thing not to have to fear for your life to satisfy a basic biological urge. People who want to turn their back on this freedom should be regarded with the same contempt as faith healers or the Flat Earth Society. Sex isn’t a right. It’s a biological urge which most of us manage to undertake without creating unwanted persons. I have certainly taken charge of my personal reproductive rights every single time I’ve had sex, and I expect others to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/144 "2013-05-06T21:04:57Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I mean, seriously, we have someone in this thread who quite seriously said women get themselves pregnant. Seriously. C’mon. Women choose to stay pregnant. Abortion is a wonderrful choice, but with that choice comes responsibility including the responsibility not to have a child unless the other partner is willing. No one male or female should be forced into celibacy because there is no other way to avoid being stuck with an unwanted child. It’s just that simple. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/145 "2013-05-06T21:08:03Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Sex isn’t a right. It’s a biological urge which most of us manage to undertake without creating unwanted persons. I have certainly taken charge of my personal reproductive rights every single time I’ve had sex, and I expect others to do the same. But strangely you don’t extend this expectation to women who choose to continue pregnancies against their partners wishes and deliberately bring unwanted children into the world. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/146 "2013-05-06T21:08:38Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Because perhaps he would like to one day choose to have a child with a woman of his choice. We do not require a woman to have a child with every man she has sex with, do we? So, do you think men should be free to have sex condom free, ejaculating deep within his partner, sans consequence? I’m not sure what you’re arguing here. I don’t like kids either, but I’ve also managed to get through my adult life thus far without even accidentally creating one. It’s not that hard. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > No one male or female should be forced into celibacy because there is no other way to avoid being stuck with an unwanted child. It’s just that simple. Who the hell is arguing for forced celibacy? Get a vasectomy, wear a condom, pull out, and have as much kinky, cum spewing sex as you’d like with women who also are on a few methods of birth control themselves. Is it possible for a pregnancy to result there? Sure, but it’s so incredibly unlikely that it’s hardly notable. And hell, if you’re afraid she’s going to cheek your cum like a hamster would corn, don’t cum in her mouth or on her. Cum in your hand, wash it off. If you’re afraid she’s going to siphon your semen out of a condom to sneak impregnate herself to live off of your child support riches, flush the shit down the toilet when you’re done. Look, I love sex without condoms, but I also really, really don’t like kids. So, I make due. My pleasure takes a minor hit, but it’s worth it in the long run for me and my empty uterus. I seriously don’t get what’s so hard about this. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/147 "2013-05-06T21:08:41Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > No one male or female should be forced into celibacy because there is no other way to avoid being stuck with an unwanted child. It’s just that simple. No one is forced into celibacy. Everyone is free to have all the sex they like with willing partners, just as they are free to employ whatever birth control works to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/148 "2013-05-06T21:09:51Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > But strangely you don’t extend this expectation to women who choose to continue pregnancies against their partners wishes and deliberately bring unwanted children into the world. So men should choose trustworthy or sterile partners, is what you’re saying here. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/149 "2013-05-06T21:10:22Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > What the hell are you feeding children? You could bury a child in bread for that much. I’m sorry, I cannot believe you really think this. Between this and the commonplace spermjacking I just don’t know what to make of what you say. You honestly and true think that all child support is needed for is food? And just bread on top of it? I’m starting to understand how you’re in a situation where $380 a month seems like a lot of money to you. I hope there is a place to donate $ for condoms and spermicide for people who believe in this stuff because I’d like to donate to keep those genes from reproducing. Holy crap. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/150 "2013-05-06T21:13:47Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > The moment a child enters this world which is a product of your sperm, it ceases to be about you. Child support isn’t a punishment; it serves to protect the child’s rights and needs. If the mother chooses to use it for such, as there is no law to force such. And if there is a father who can afford to pay anything. This “what’s best for the child” stuff is very selective. Enforcement of child support is vicious, but not enforcement of visitation rights which are rather more important for a child. A boy raped by an older woman is forced to pay to support her rape-baby, but then the baby is left in the custody of a child sex offender. It is curious that the “best interests of the child” always seem to coincide with whatever is best for a woman. > [@](#): > > Those of you arguing “it’s not fair that I can’t terminate my parental rights” look pretty foolish to those of us who manage to have sex without creating children we don’t want. Like me? I’ve got no child support obligations, or unwanted children. But hold the applause, because that’s no something any man can control. If a man is raped as a child, or as an adult, or has his sperm stolen, he is held just as legally responsible as any man who pulls a condom off while having sex with a woman. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/151 "2013-05-06T21:15:07Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Don’t be ridiculous. Someone has to pay to support and raise children to adulthood; we aren’t going to exterminate unwanted children or leave them in the street to die like stray dogs. If not the two persons who created or adopted the child, then who? How about the the mother who choose to give birth to the child when abortion would have been a better solution and all the anti-abortion/baby worshipping idiots that support her in that decision? ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/152 "2013-05-06T21:15:14Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Sex isn’t a right. It’s a biological urge which most of us manage to undertake without creating unwanted persons. I have certainly taken charge of my personal reproductive rights every single time I’ve had sex, and I expect others to do the same. OK, so clearly you believe that _you_ are responsible. Then if someone else uses the exact same preventative measures as you, with full knowledge that they don’t want a child, and those measures fail because they sometimes do, wouldn’t it be nice if there was some way they could avoid paying for the child they didn’t want? Nothing about the way this could be done yet. Just: wouldn’t you consider it a good thing for people who are equally responsible as you to not be forced to play Russian roulette? If so, then what we’re talking about is if there is any way to do it. The entire problem is money. If it wasn’t for the fact that the burden has to go somewhere, there would be no need for child support laws in the first place. So maybe there are some conditions we could set so that those who follow the conditions would be considered acting responsibly (like you!), and would not be forced to pay child support. The conditions would have to be strict to limit the financial burden. We could also provide more methods of birth control (such as vasectomy) without the high cost. It’s not about fairness to me, it’s about trying to make the world a better place if we can. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/153 "2013-05-06T21:16:16Z")
One thing that’s not mentioned here: every single day, states across the Union are making it harder and harder for women to obtain abortions. So, for those of you saying the woman has that choice, so she should bear 100% of the responsibility if the man doesn’t want that child— what do we do in states that make it virtually impossible for a woman to get an abortion within a reasonable amount of time? > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > How about the the mother who choose to give birth to the child when abortion would have been a better solution and all the anti-abortion/baby worshipping idiots that support her in that decision? Again, you assume abortion was an option readily available to her. Remember, not everybody knows they are pregnant on day one- some folks don’t find out for weeks and weeks. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/154 "2013-05-06T21:19:47Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > I’m sorry, I cannot believe you really think this. Between this and the commonplace spermjacking I just don’t know what to make of what you say. That is more than the subsistence payment paid in my country’s unemployment benefit system. And that is for a fully grown adult, not a child with a lesser caloric requirement, and is also intended to cover water, gas, electricity and all other expenses other than housing. > [@](#): > > You honestly and true think that all child support is needed for is food? And just bread on top of it? I’m starting to understand how you’re in a situation where $380 a month seems like a lot of money to you. Obviously I wasn’t saying that the proper way to maintain a child is to bury it in wholemeal loaves, no. The point is that such a sum of money is rather extravagant and the attitude that it’s not enough for someone to try and gain through fraud or extortion is incorrect. > [@](#): > > I hope there is a place to donate $ for condoms and spermicide for people who believe in this stuff because I’d like to donate to keep those genes from reproducing. Holy crap. I have a paypal account which is open to the generous. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/155 "2013-05-06T21:19:57Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > So, do you think men should be free to have sex condom free, ejaculating deep within his partner, sans consequence? If their partners agree to have sex condom free, ejaculating deep within them, hell yes! That’s the whole point of sexual choice. Now if the partner wants to use condoms, and the man tricks her, I suggest a kick in the groin, the morning after pill, and never, ever having sex with such an untrustworthy person again. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/156 "2013-05-06T21:20:42Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Like me? I’ve got no child support obligations, or unwanted children. But hold the applause, because that’s no something any man can control. You are the only one who can control your reproductive potential and where your dick goes. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/157 "2013-05-06T21:22:19Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > So maybe there are some conditions we could set so that those who follow the conditions would be considered acting responsibly (like you!), and would not be forced to pay child support. The conditions would have to be strict to limit the financial burden. We could also provide more methods of birth control (such as vasectomy) without the high cost. It’s not about fairness to me, it’s about trying to make the world a better place if we can. Who is going to pay for these unwanted children? Are you going to ask taxpayers to make it easier for men to have sex with zero financial responsibility for the repercussions? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/158 "2013-05-06T21:25:37Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > So men should choose trustworthy or sterile partners, is what you’re saying here. Agreed. I think you are deliberately misunderstanding me. If sex involves responsibility of all partners and one partner can’t use their partner as an explanation for their own lack of responsibility, then women need to step up to the plate an accept the full responsibility of parenthood if they are not going to be mature about recreational sex and have an abortion when there is a birth control failure. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/159 "2013-05-06T21:27:27Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I’m really starting to think you aren’t totally clear on how babby is formed. It is birthed by a woman, and issued with a certificate by the government. Before it is birthed it is a foetus, zygote, and the like. When it is birthed it becomes a subject of Her Majesty with full legal rights. Pregnancies, on the other hand, are formed by a sex act, or less often by a woman undergoing artificial insemination, which may be with sperm from a sex partner, an anonymous or known donor, or the innocent victim of the theft of his sperm. These can be terminated should a woman choose to do so. The one only becomes the other if a woman chooses for it to happen, unless she is kidnapped and held incommunicado or is Irish, and therefore unable to obtain an abortion. > [@](#): > > Oh, so you have no statistics or facts, just your presumption that women are siphoning your cum out of trash cans. K. No, I’ve got no statistics. I mean, who keeps tract of that? I wouldn’t know where to begin. I just googled it and immediately found enough hits to discard the idea that it’s an “absurd hypothetical”. Certainly, though, of the case I’ve heard of only two, out of more than four, have been of theft from third party sperm repositories. Therefore I stand by my previous statement. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480/160 "2013-05-06T21:30:01Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Who is going to pay for these unwanted children? Are you going to ask taxpayers to make it easier for men to have sex with zero financial responsibility for the repercussions? Make abortion free (a social program I wholeheartedly support), so there should be no reasonable excuse for a woman choosing to have an unwanted child. The taxpayers should blame the person responsible: the woman who selfishly choose to bring an unwanted child into the world. I think if this were the social norm, we would have virtually no problems with unwanted children. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-what-would-be-a-fair-solution-for-unwanted-child-support/657480.md?page=9)