# Men who abuse women (or anyone) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 15, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307 "2011-12-15T16:11:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/21 "2011-12-15T17:41:11Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > When cultural and “macho” issues are addressed, actual domestic violence is about a 50-50 split as to the instigator of the violence (USA only). In other words, women are about as equally the physical aggressors as men. You seem to be well versed in this subject. Would it be too much to ask you to provide some evidence for these assertions? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/22 "2011-12-15T17:42:36Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > With respect to just domestic violence between adult men and women it is often very difficult to determine true statistics. While it is generally assumed the violence is predominantly men attacking women, this may be a false statistic. When cultural and “macho” issues are addressed, actual domestic violence is about a 50-50 split as to the instigator of the violence (USA only). In other words, women are about as equally the physical aggressors as men.\ With the added bonus that if a man calls the police, he’s likely to end up in the back of the police car. **Bloodless Turnip** , I don’t think your research has been very in-depth. A quick Google search turned up [this site.](http://www.womenabusingmen.org/) According to them, > [@](#): > > Every 37 seconds, a man is physically assaulted by an intimate partner, (Department of Justice, 2000). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Accident](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Mr.Accident](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Accident)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/23 "2011-12-15T17:51:23Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > At least they’re not bankers. I’ve got no problem with bankers. Now the ones who set policies for banks on the other hand, they deserve their own thread. > [@Scylla](#): > > I notice you’re letting child molesters off the hook. What do you have against kids? Nonsense. I just include them in with physical abusers. > [@mhendo](#): > > Was there anything in particular that led to this rant, or was this just how you happened to be feeling this morning? Just the abuse I witnessed my mom and sister take at the hand of my various step dads over the years, plus what my SO was telling me about her ex-husband. She was so abused that I can’t enter a room without announcing it first, since it causes her to have a panic attack. I also have to be careful of touching her when she’s asleep, or she’ll wake up screaming in fright. > [@Erdosain](#): > > Qin LeMay left his computer open and the OP stole his half-finished post. Who’s that? If I’m going to be stealing someone’s half finished post, I really should know the fellow better. > [@Sitnam](#): > > How 'bout we just Pit abusers. Since this seems to be a generic pitting why single out the men? That’s a good idea. If I weren’t so muddled due to sinus meds, I would’ve done that instead. Any mod wanna edit my title for me? There’s pie\* in it for you. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m having a little trouble with the basic concept of the OP. Okay, I don’t like people who want to hurt other people. But I don’t see how hoping they get tortured in hell advances the cause. Wouldn’t that just add me to the list of people who want to hurt other people? If I thought there was an actual chance of what I wrote coming true, I wouldn’t have wrote it. I also enjoy playing violent video games that allow me to rip people’s spines out of their back, but that doesn’t mean I’ll actually try it in real life. > [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > I’m not sure I am willing to go to the lengths you are on such a controversial issue. Can I just buy a ribbon or a magnet for my car to show support? Sure, it’s just $19.95, and comes in a variety of colors. Oh wait, that wasn’t meant for me? Darn, I’ll just have to find a different way to make money. \*Act while supplies last. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/24 "2011-12-15T17:53:34Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > With respect to just domestic violence between adult men and women it is often very difficult to determine true statistics. While it is generally assumed the violence is predominantly men attacking women, this may be a false statistic. When cultural and “macho” issues are addressed, actual domestic violence is about a 50-50 split as to the instigator of the violence (USA only). In other words, women are about as equally the physical aggressors as men. > > That said, I fully support **Mr. Accident’s** post, **mhendo’s** addendum and **Soylent Juicy’s** excellent view. This is an important point. I’ve personally known men who have been in a physically abusive relationship, but the difference was that unless the woman had a weapon of some sort, it was less likely that she would leave any sort of lasting physical damage. So while men abusing women be worse in the sense that men are generally stronger and able to inflict more physical harm, the emotional and psychological damage from the violence is at least as bad. And I say at least because it’s not just the damage from being harmed by someone that you love and trust, but more that society may scorn men who hit women and people are immediately supportive of her, when it’s reversed, there seems to be a lot less support for the victim. One woman I’ve met who was physically violent toward her then boyfriend, when confronted specifically said that there was nothing wrong with her hitting him because she wasn’t able to physically hurt him and completely downplayed the psychological and emotional affects. And he mostly got roll-eyes from people when it came up to others; only a couple people seemed to think it was anything worth notice So, while I completely agree that men who abuse women or children are worthy of scorn, I would like to see this double standard gone, because women who do the same thing are every bit as worthy of the scorn and, particularly when it comes to children or animals, there’s not really any meaningful difference between a man and a woman anyway, since either would have the strength advantage. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/25 "2011-12-15T17:53:53Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Very well. Carry on participating in the ‘Me no like men, men bad’ screed. I’m the first one who pointed out the gender issue, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say what you’re saying. To me, it’s personal too, (I’ve known men who have been abused). I don’t think anyone here are saying men are bad. I just know that there’s a lot of help for women out there. There should be consideration for all inclusive support ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/26 "2011-12-15T17:56:36Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > **Bloodless Turnip** , I don’t think your research has been very in-depth. A quick Google search turned up [this site.](http://www.womenabusingmen.org/) According to them, What a stupid citation. First, it’s a second-hand citation that provides no information about the Department of Justice’s figures. We aren’t given the name of the DoJ report that provided the figures, there is no link to any figures or any breakdown of the statistics, and there are basically no details provided at all about what the number might tell us. Second, even if we assume the number is completely accurate, it talks only about men being assaulted by “an intimate partner,” so it tells us nothing at all about the comparative levels of men assaulting women versus women assaulting men in domestic situations. Also, for men, an intimate partner can be another man, and this one number tells us nothing about what percentage of male domestic violence victims were abused by their male partners. I’m quite willing to believe that domestic violence against men is worse than many people realize. It also makes sense, given the cultural assumptions about gender roles and masculinity, that it is under-reported. But that one shitty citation barely advances our understanding of the issue at all. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/27 "2011-12-15T17:57:07Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > I’m not sure I am willing to go to the lengths you are on such a controversial issue. Can I just buy a ribbon or a magnet for my car to show support? I’m going to pull my advertising from All-American Abusers. ---
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/28 "2011-12-15T17:58:06Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > With the added bonus that if a man calls the police, he’s likely to end up in the back of the police car. > > **Bloodless Turnip** , I don’t think your research has been very in-depth. A quick Google search turned up [this site.](http://www.womenabusingmen.org/) According to them, It has been, and I see no numbers or case studies to back up any assertion that the rate is 50/50. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/29 "2011-12-15T18:06:47Z")
> [@Soylent\_Juicy](#): > > Anybody who maliciously abuses a child or animal deserves everything the OP says and worse. All animals or just some of them? How do you separate them? 'Cause I know a lot of people who outright _enjoy_ impaling animals with metal spikes and drowning them while they struggle to get free, and I’d like to know if I should condemn them or not. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/30 "2011-12-15T18:07:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Every 37 seconds, a man is physically assaulted by an intimate partner, (Department of Justice, 2000). He must be getting pretty damned bruised by now. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/31 "2011-12-15T18:07:32Z")
> [@Bloodless\_Turnip](#): > > In every single study I have read and every single compilation of abuse cases I have studied, men are more often the abuser. I think folks are implying that those are compliations of reported abuse cases. There are people who don’t think that hitting is abuse, or that it’s not abuse if both are doing it. In that case, a woman who hits, or who hits first won’t be reported. Or the man thinks it’s abuse, but is embarrassed to mention it, let alone report it. Or the man thinks, yeah, she’s throwing things at me, but she throws like a girl. **shrug** Not sure what kind of study would reliably determine how many women hit how many men how often. Unfortunately, I’ve been sorting old family photos for weeks, now; so you’re going to be stuck with an anecdote. (Sorry - I’ve gotten to the point where I’m hearing dead people.) Dad would infrequently talk about the other guys at work, and how much better his family was than their families. One guy’s wife had a temper and once (timeframe: early sixties) they were driving back from a vacation. She took exception to something he said as he was driving the car down a curving mountain road and she took off her spiked heel shoe and started hitting him in the head with it. It’s been a long time, so I don’t really remember anything else about the story. But I think I’d remember if it had included him retaliating. The feeling is that he didn’t even pull over, but kept trying to fend her off and stay on the road. Of course, the story is second hand. No telling what actually happened. Times may have changed, but I can imagine families today thinking of similar things as ‘she’s got a temper’ or ‘I shouldn’t have to put up with this shit,’ rather than abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/32 "2011-12-15T18:38:57Z")
The [Oregon Counseling Center](http://www.oregoncounseling.org/Handouts/DomesticViolenceMen.htm) has some information about women who abuse men. [Domestic violence against men: Know the signs](http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/domestic-violence-against-men/MY00557) from the Mayo Clinic Spending some time doing research indicates the real issue is domestic abuse, regardless of the gender instigating the abuse. Society has been skewed for years that women are the abused and men are the abusers. And while statistics abound supporting that view, the lack of statistics about women abusers should not be seen that the problem does not exist. If someone really is determined they will only believe when statistics are produced, so be it. Then also accept that abused men are in the same boat women used to be years ago when no one was listening to them and abused women was often seen as “acceptable” in relationships. It’s taken years, if not decades, for society to be where it is right now that abuse against women is criminal. It will take much longer for people to understand that abuse against men is also wrong before society makes the leap that abuse against people, let alone animals, is criminal. On this issue, demanding “proof” of women abusers is deliberately obfuscating the greater issues of violence among people, specifically in relationships. America is a violent society, and screwed up that it’s so accepting of violence. The May Clinic information really isn’t gender specific. The signs apply to mean and women. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/33 "2011-12-15T19:06:49Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > And while statistics abound supporting that view, the lack of statistics about women abusers should not be seen that the problem does not exist. No-one has ever said that the problem doesn’t exist. That’s all in your mind. I simply asked you to support your assertion: > [@Duckster](#): > > When cultural and “macho” issues are addressed, actual domestic violence is about a 50-50 split as to the instigator of the violence (USA only). In other words, women are about as equally the physical aggressors as men. Where’s the evidence for that? ---
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/34 "2011-12-15T19:08:48Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > No-one has ever said that the problem doesn’t exist. That’s all in your mind. > > I simply asked you to support your assertion:Where’s the evidence for that? Ditto. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/35 "2011-12-15T19:09:22Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > He must be getting pretty damned bruised by now. I somehow managed to keep myself from making that joke - I knew you guys wouldn’t let me down. 🙂 To muddy the waters further, women not only are physically abusing men, but there are some statistics that indicate that women are more likely to physically abuse children, too. [Here’s a cite for that](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abuse#cite_note-31): > [@](#): > > The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services reports that for each year between 2000 and 2005, “female parents acting alone” were most likely to be perpetrators of child abuse We’ve come a long way in increasing awareness of women being abused, but we’re doing society a disservice if we pretend that men are the only ones who abuse others. ---
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/36 "2011-12-15T19:18:10Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > … but we’re doing society a disservice if we pretend that men are the only ones who abuse others. Who said that? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/37 "2011-12-15T19:32:58Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > At least they’re not bankers. Yeah cuz they’re totally respectful towards women. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/38 "2011-12-15T19:50:01Z")
My position on abusers is still evolving. I’m not ready to take a stand yet. ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheField](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@LilyoftheField](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheField)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/39 "2011-12-15T19:52:07Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > This is an important point. I’ve personally known men who have been in a physically abusive relationship, but the difference was that unless the woman had a weapon of some sort, it was less likely that she would leave any sort of lasting physical damage. So while men abusing women be worse in the sense that men are generally stronger and able to inflict more physical harm, the emotional and psychological damage from the violence is at least as bad. Really? I find this hard to believe. I’m not saying that there is no emotional and/or psychological damage inflicted by abuse in any form - obviously there is, but there’s a world of difference between your average man being physically attacked by an unarmed woman and an average woman being attacked by an unarmed man. By saying that the damage is ‘at least as bad’, the implication is that it is potentially even worse. I can’t imagine how that can be true. Unless you have been in a position where you are being pinned to the wall by a hand on your throat by a person who is a foot taller and more than sixty pounds heavier, while said person, in a rage, foams at the mouth and threatens to KILL you and you know - you KNOW that this person is physically able to do just that - well, that’s a degree of emotional and psychological damage that goes a lot deeper than being hit by someone who is physically weaker than you. Unless you have been in a position where you know that within minutes you might be dead, you can’t even imagine the kind of psychological damage that can inflict. So that phrase ‘unless the woman had a weapon of some sort’ carries a really significant difference in the dynamic. You are seriously underestimating the trauma that results just from knowing that your abuser is ‘stronger and able to inflict more damage.’ That alone has a psychological impact probably greater than the physical abuse itself. The statistics may (or may not - I don’t really know) show that men are physically abused as often as women, but I’d be willing to bet that far more women are actually beaten or choked to death at the hands of men than vice versa. That is an important psychological difference… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/40 "2011-12-15T19:58:13Z")
> [@Mr.Accident](#): > > If I thought there was an actual chance of what I wrote coming true, I wouldn’t have wrote it. I also enjoy playing violent video games that allow me to rip people’s spines out of their back, but that doesn’t mean I’ll actually try it in real life. So the vehemence of your opposition to domestic abuse is balanced by ineffectiveness? Maybe instead of making empty threats against domestic abuse, you could start looking for things you can do that would actually help reduce domestic abuse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307.md?page=3)