# Men who abuse women (or anyone) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 15, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307 "2011-12-15T16:11:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/41 "2011-12-15T19:59:32Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > To muddy the waters further, women not only are physically abusing men, but there are some statistics that indicate that women are more likely to physically abuse children, too. Yeah, because there’s a huge number of single mother households. It’s kind of hard to beat your kids if you don’t even live with them. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/42 "2011-12-15T20:01:51Z")
> [@Mr.Accident](#): > > Just the abuse I witnessed my mom and sister take at the hand of my various step dads over the years, plus what my SO was telling me about her ex-husband. She was so abused that I can’t enter a room without announcing it first, since it causes her to have a panic attack. I also have to be careful of touching her when she’s asleep, or she’ll wake up screaming in fright. Wow. That’s sad. Last spring I dated someone who said that her last 5 boyfriends, over the past 10 years, were all physically abusive to her. In fact, when we started dating, she asked if I was going to hit her. I can’t even imagine what that’s like, nor do I want to! But to her, that was normal. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/43 "2011-12-15T20:06:45Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Wow. That’s sad. > > Last spring I dated someone who said that her last 5 boyfriends, over the past 10 years, were all physically abusive to her. In fact, when we started dating, she asked if I was going to hit her. I can’t even imagine what that’s like, nor do I want to! But to her, that was normal. Aren’t some people attracted abusive people because of their history? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/44 "2011-12-15T20:09:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > My position on abusers is still evolving. I’m not ready to take a stand yet. Would it help if self-abuse were taken off the table? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Accident](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Mr.Accident](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Accident)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/45 "2011-12-15T20:15:44Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Wow. That’s sad. > > In fact, when we started dating, she asked if I was going to hit her. I can’t even imagine what that’s like, nor do I want to! But to her, that was normal. I was asked the same thing when I started dating this girl. She jerks away if I make any sudden movements near her. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/46 "2011-12-15T20:17:16Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Aren’t some people attracted abusive people because of their history? I’m sure that’s true. How she ended up with me is a mystery, but ultimately we ended up not together. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/47 "2011-12-15T20:19:59Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I notice you’re letting child molesters off the hook. What do you have against kids? Say what you want about child molesters, but at least they slow down in school zones. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/48 "2011-12-15T20:38:30Z")
Whe is this “abuse” of which you speak? One person’s “abuse” is another person’s “negotiation”. Our entire civilization is built on the use of violence, or the threat of violence, to enforce obedience and conformity. If people do what they’re told they won’t get beat up nearly so much, after a few beatings just to show them what’s what! ---
**Author:** ![Jaledin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jaledin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaledin)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/49 "2011-12-15T20:51:15Z")
Take a clothespin made of sharp twine, taper off the neck, and suck the ess out of your own a\*\*. Have I ever hit a woman? No, but I would if it came to blows on the street with a stiletto heel coming for my eyesocket. But I have abused plenty verbally, and they hurt me just the same. The mutually destructive things one may say to another is appalling and terrific. It’s the circle of life, or something from some movie about jungles I never saw. ETA corrected for obscenity. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/50 "2011-12-15T21:14:27Z")
> [@Mr.Accident](#): > > I was asked the same thing when I started dating this girl. She jerks away if I make any sudden movements near her. She doesn’t have to live that way. There are very effective treatments for PTSD. I had severe PTSD for over a decade and one three-month course of prolonged exposure therapy dramatically reduced my symptoms - going on three years of recovery, I’m not even sure I’d fit the diagnosis anymore. I just have to put it out there because trauma survivors tend to believe that they are just stuck being afraid for the rest of their lives. There’s always hope for recovery. It’s understandable you’re angry, but it’s also important that you don’t only see her as a victim. If you’re not careful you could reinforce her sense of helplessness by treating her with kid gloves. She needs to take control of her own life and that means taking responsibility for her own sense of safety. I’m only speaking from experience in my own marriage - her trauma WILL affect your relationship so the sooner you both deal with it, the better. Your job is to be her cheerleader, not her savior. ---
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/51 "2011-12-15T21:24:20Z")
olivesmarch4th - is there any self help you would recommend for PTSD? Some of use have no way to afford any type of therapy for it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Accident](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Mr.Accident](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Accident)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/52 "2011-12-15T21:32:53Z")
**Bloodless Turnip** asked what I was going to ask. I’m unemployeed at the moment, so I have no money to pay for any treatment she seeks. She’s working, but makes just enough to cover her car payment, insurance, gas, and diabetic supplies. She hasn’t been working long enough to qualify for health insurance yet, so all that comes out of pocket. Before she found a job, she tried signing up for government assistance, and was told since she was a single female with no children she didn’t qualify. ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheField](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@LilyoftheField](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheField)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/53 "2011-12-15T21:45:37Z")
Well, here’s the thing…you have to come to the realization that your past influences your present only as much as you allow it to. We tend to think that we are victims of our own past, but it doesn’t have to be that way. Once I came to the realization that I did not really want to come to grips with my past - what I really wanted was to change it! - I realized that what I actually wanted, could not happen. So…if what I really wanted - to change the past - could not happen, what’s left? The only thing left is to let it go. Really, that’s the only thing left. The phrase ‘let it go’ is used a lot in psychotherapy, but until you realize that no matter what, you can’t change it, you can’t ‘unhappen’ it…well, until you come that point, you can’t let it go. But when your pain is so great that you do get to that point, once you can really accept that you can’t change the past - well, then it gets really, really easy. Resist nothing… ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/54 "2011-12-15T22:00:59Z")
I’m not sure about books for PTSD. I’ll ask around and see if I can find anything. Generally speaking, the more an intervention focuses on behavioral changes, the better. I don’t want to recommend some kind of makeshift prolonged exposure because it is extremely intense and if you end the treatment session too soon, it could make everything worse, not better. But right now I’m completing an Acceptance and Commitment Therapy workbook and ACT seems like it would be really good for trauma - I’ll let you know what I find. I realize not everybody can afford treatment - it’s a shameful reality about mental health in our society. Even when you can afford it, the expense can still be a tremendous burden. Since a lot of people with PTSD also have depression, I can recommend a great depression workbook. I’d recommend [Overcoming Depression One Step at a Time](http://www.amazon.com/Overcoming-Depression-One-Step-Time/dp/1572243678), a behavioral activation workbook that has been shown to improve depression symptoms even without a therapist. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/55 "2011-12-16T01:11:29Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Would it help if self-abuse were taken off the table? I always recommend that you take your self abuse off the table. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Accident](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Mr.Accident](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Accident)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/56 "2011-12-16T01:25:50Z")
Thank you **olivesmarch4th** and others for your advice. It is greatly appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/57 "2011-12-16T01:30:31Z")
I’m going to admit that I have not read the entire thread, but I get really fucking tired of the idea that it is only MEN who abuse women and children and the reverse never happens so it’s all about evil MEN being the abusers. FUCK THAT SHIT Years ago the Minneapolis StarTribune did a survey of high school students and whether or not they’d ever been struck by someone they were dating. The article was huge, like 8-10 pages, and focused nearly exclusively on boys hitting girls. _ **Despite the fact that their own numbers on page one showed the difference in number of boys vs girls being assaulted by the people they were dating was only like 2-4%** _ Yeah, let’s take a big study showing that almost as many men are assaulted by women as the reverse, completely ignore half of it and cast men as the villains. As a victim of domestic abuse myself, I take special umbrage at the whole thing. My ex-wife physically assaulted me in my sleep multiple times. On one occasion while we were just lying in bed talking, she rolled over the other direction, rolled back (a complete 360), jumped up into the air and came down knee first on my crotch. While I was in a fetal position writhing in pain and just about to tell her to call 911, she went, in one breath and one sentence, from declaring it to be an accident (fuck no, it wasn’t, it was a deliberate assault) to apologizing for that accident, to screaming at me for still pretending to be in pain because she had apologized for it, to screaming at me for being mean to her by continuing to pretend to be in pain. The only reason I didn’t call the police or go to the hospital was because I knew that she would likely lie about it and try to claim that I had done something and try to get ME arrested for it. Ultimately, I had her removed from our home on an Order for Protection after she started going down her phone list calling everyone and telling them that I was violent and physically assaulting her on a regular basis. Unfortunately for her, she called my sister, my sister asked for specific examples, and when she was not able to provide a single one, my sister got me and dragged me to the county domestic abuse department. So a healthy FUCK YOU to the title of the OP. Hold everyone responsible for violence against others. Women as well as Men. There is no excuse for it, there is no special right for women to slap or abuse their husbands or boyfriends. It isn’t cute, it isn’t allowed, it isn’t right. You don’t get a free pass because stupid sexist fuckers think the men should “be a man and take it” or any crap like that. Hold everyone responsible, stop demonizing ONLY men as abusers, or go fuck yourself right out of existence. ---
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/58 "2011-12-16T04:46:04Z")
Where has anyone stated that only men are abusers? It’s the OP’s pit thread, I assume the OP is allowed to choose what gender of abuser he wants to pit - and since his girlfriend lives with the repercussions of the abuse she suffered at the hands of a man, that might be why the OP chose to pit male abusers. Perhaps you should go fuck your reading ability. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/59 "2011-12-16T05:04:25Z")
Oh, of course. “No one said only men are abusers, but right now we’re only addressing men as abusers” ---
**Author:** ![DHMO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecc23a/32.png) [@DHMO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DHMO)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307/60 "2011-12-16T05:50:44Z")
> [@Bloodless\_Turnip](#): > > Where has anyone stated that only men are abusers? Good question…where might one get that idea? > [@Mr.Accident](#): > > To those men out there who abuse their spouse/lover/girlfriend/etc, may you all rot in the lowest levels of Hell… > > May your dicks rot enough to be functional only as a way to void urine, may your testicles swell to the size of coconuts… Women, of course, have “dicks” and “testicles” which may rot and swell, don’t they? There have been studies, and much anecdotal evidence, that indicate, if a man and a woman get into a domestic dispute, and blows are exchanged, if the police respond to the altercation, it is the MAN who gets arrested and thrown into jail, regardless of who initiated the fight. When people mine the data to determine abuse rates by gender, it is skewed because the police frequently do not report cases where the man was the sole victim at the hands of a woman, or they report the man as the perpetrator even if he was responding to provocation. Add in that male victims will under-report, because of society’s attitude that makes them feel less of a man if they are “beaten up by a woman.” [cite](http://pages.citebite.com/h1m3l1k1e7lqk): > [@](#): > > A 2007-2008 online non-random, self-report survey of the experiences and health of men who sustained partner violence in the past year. The study showed that male victims of IPV are very hesitant to report the violence or seek help. Reasons given for non-reporting were they (1) may be ashamed to come forward; (2) may not be believed; and (3) may be accused of being a batterer when they do come forward. The 229 U.S. heterosexual men, between 18 and 59, had been physically assaulted by their female partner within previous year and did seek help. Additional references [here](http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm). Aizenman, M., & Kelley, G. (1988). The incidence of violence and acquaintance rape in dating relationships among college men and women. Journal of College Student Development, 29, 305-311. (A sample of actively dating college students \<204 women and 140 men\> responded to a survey examining courtship violence. _ **Authors report that there were no significant differences between the sexes in self reported perpetration of physical abuse** _.) Allen-Collinson, J. (2009). A marked man: _ **Female perpetrated intimate partner abuse** _. International Journal of Men’s Health, 8, (1), 22-40. Bland, R., & Orne, H. (1986). Family violence and psychiatric disorder. Canadian Journal of Psychiatry, 31, 129-137. (In interviews with 1,200 randomly selected Canadians \<489 men, 711 women\> found that _ **women both engaged in and initiated violence at higher rates than their male partners** _.) …and many more. Violence is violence, and is wrong no matter who is the abuser and who is the victim. We, as a society, must overcome the presumption that males are more “to blame” for domestic abuse, and address the underlying problem to seek a workable solution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-women-or-anyone/606307.md?page=4)