# Men who abuse young boys sexually are not homosexuals - Valid argument? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 23, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-young-boys-sexually-are-not-homosexuals-valid-argument/610349 "2012-01-23T00:48:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![phantom\_lamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@phantom\_lamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phantom_lamb)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-young-boys-sexually-are-not-homosexuals-valid-argument/610349/41 "2012-01-24T10:12:39Z")
I’ve always had a problem with people casually categorizing pedophiles as either heterosexual or homosexual. I don’t feel that pedophiles have a “sexual orientation”, at least not one worth distinguishing. They’re simply pedophiles. Kids are kids - they haven’t developed secondary sexual characteristics. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-young-boys-sexually-are-not-homosexuals-valid-argument/610349/42 "2012-01-24T10:26:25Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > This is probably SUPPOSED to be a question with a solid, precise, definitive answer. (Certainly, RickJay has tried to provide a factual answer.) > > But a lot of what I’m seeing amounts to “No TRUE Scotsman…” > > It’s mind-boggling how so many SDMB regulars are quick to say, with absolutely NO evidence that “Abe Lincoln was gay” or “Michelle Bachman’s husband is gay” or “Tom Selleck is gay.” But they’re equally quick to insist that men who demonstrably HAVE had sex with other (under age) males are absolutely, positively NOT gay! It’s not really that hard to figure out. Your first three examples are jokes\*. The assumed linkage between homosexuality and pedophilia, on the other hand, has been the basis for a vast and vicious discrimination against homosexuals that only very recently has begun to recede. It should not be particularly mind-boggling that people approach the latter subject with a good deal more credulousness and care than they approach celebrity gossip. [sub]\*“Lincoln was gay,” isn’t precisely a joke, as there’s some legitimate (although questionable) scholarship supporting it, but it’s still in its essentials indistinguishable from the standard “Is he gay?” People Magazine celebrity trivia.[/sub] > [@Argent Towers](#): > > ``` > Ah, that's right. "Let's all disregard the labels that 99% of people understand, to make 1% of people feel better." > > ``` If those labels are inaccurate, then they should be disregarded, no matter how popular they are. Also, consider that the labels in question were created by the 99%, in order to define the 1%. I think the 1% is justified in questioning whether the labels that are being applied to them by the mainstream are accurate or not. The thing to remember is that words like “heterosexual” or “homosexual” are not objective truths. They’re broad labels we created to try to describe one of the most chaotic and irrational aspects of human existence, and as such, they can’t help but be grossly insufficient to the task. It’s important not to get too hung up on them. I used to think that sexuality was fixed and immutable in a person, and could never be changed. Now, I’m not sure if that’s even true on a social level. Human sexuality can be amazingly fluid. What it means to be straight or gay today is not the same as it was even thirty years ago. As the reality of the situations these words describe changes, the definitions of these words are going to change, too, but it takes time to disseminate these changes. > [@BeaMyra](#): > > How come if a guy is married and has a kid, like Robert Reed, then divorces he’s is gay if afterward he has sex with men. > > But if a man has sex with a guy and then gets married and doesn’t have sex with anyone other than his wife, he’s a closeted gay. These general assumptions are made because there is enormous pressure in our society to be heterosexual, and the penalties imposed by society for not being heterosexual can be severe. There is, therefore, a very strong incentive for gay men to act in ways that are counter to their natural inclination (such as sleeping with women) while there is no opposing incentive for straight men to act in ways that are counter to their natural inclination (such as sleeping with other men). That said, this is a stereotype that’s well on it’s way towards the dustbin of history. I think most people (at least, most people who weren’t contemporaneous with Robert Reed) recognize that sexuality is vastly more varied than is implied by the hetero/homosexual binary, and don’t have any objection to the idea that a heterosexual man might have some homosexual experiences in his past. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-young-boys-sexually-are-not-homosexuals-valid-argument/610349/43 "2012-01-24T13:56:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The assumed linkage between homosexuality and pedophilia, on the other hand, has been the basis for a vast and vicious discrimination against homosexuals that only very recently has begun to recede. But the distinction between heterosexual pedophilia and homosexual pedophilia should IMO be retained, because it is useful. Men who molest male children have different recidivsim rates - > [@](#): > > The factors that were found through this analysis to have the strongest relationship with sexual offense recidivism were those in the sexual deviance category: sexual interest in children, deviant sexual preferences, and sexual interest in boys. [Cite](http://www.csom.org/pubs/recidsexof.html). > [@](#): > > Human sexuality can be amazingly fluid. Do you believe that a person who was gay can turn straight? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-young-boys-sexually-are-not-homosexuals-valid-argument/610349/44 "2012-01-24T14:01:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [Do you believe that a person who was gay can turn straight? Kinsey certainly did, and I do, too. What I don’t believe is that a gay person can \*willfully \*turn straight, or be ethically induced to turn straight, or a straight person can willfully turn gay, or be ethically induced to turn gay. But yes, I absolutely believe that a person gayness or straightness, besides being on a spectrum, is only as such at a certain time and place. There honestly are people who were “gay” in college and “straight” as adults (and vice versa). They didn’t change because someone forced them to or because they wanted to, but more likely because of a change in body chemistry we don’t yet understand. And that’s not even addressing the bisexuals, who always seem to disappear in these discussions… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-young-boys-sexually-are-not-homosexuals-valid-argument/610349/45 "2012-01-24T22:14:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > But the distinction between heterosexual pedophilia and homosexual pedophilia should IMO be retained, because it is useful. Men who molest male children have different recidivsim rates - I don’t think anyone’s arguing that we shouldn’t track that sort of information. > [@](#): > > Do you believe that a person who was gay can turn straight? I believe that a person’s sexuality can change over the course of their life. I don’t think it can be done as an act of will. Sexuality isn’t a choice, it’s the net result of a huge number of other factors, almost all of which are beyond our control. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-young-boys-sexually-are-not-homosexuals-valid-argument/610349/46 "2012-01-24T22:38:17Z")
> [@BeaMyra](#): > > A lot of studies I read no longer use the term gay, straight or bisexual. They define their study as “men who have (had) sex with other men.” Wrong. There are straight guys who have had sex with other men, e.g. in prison. And there are gay guys who have not had sex with other men, e.g. they are closeted, or they are still virgins. I never had sex until I was 18, but I was gay for many years previously. A more accurate criterion should be: which sex does the person fantasize about? And even that’s not 100% accurate, in the case of someone extremely closeted. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-young-boys-sexually-are-not-homosexuals-valid-argument/610349/47 "2012-01-24T22:44:59Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Wrong. There are straight guys who have had sex with other men, e.g. in prison. And there are gay guys who have not had sex with other men, e.g. they are closeted, or they are still virgins. I never had sex until I was 18, but I was gay for many years previously. A more accurate criterion should be: which sex does the person fantasize about? And even that’s not 100% accurate, in the case of someone extremely closeted. Thats the point. Trying to describe the “person” is slippery and inexact art. It makes a lot more sense in many contexts, such as public health, to focus on behavior rather than labels and categories. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-abuse-young-boys-sexually-are-not-homosexuals-valid-argument/610349.md?page=2)