# Men who avoid women at work because of fear of alleged reports of sexual harassment **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 1, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906 "2021-09-01T15:02:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/342 "2021-10-01T02:26:15Z")
I got Bingo! She wanted it, she lied, free space, political correctness gone mad, and men are the real victims! Do I get to pick my prize? Can I choose to get a shred of evidence for any of that? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/343 "2021-10-01T10:48:19Z")
Also, “getting a talking to” presented as Fate Worse then Death, AND “back in the day”! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/344 "2021-10-01T10:51:21Z")
At least the username is 100% convincing. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/345 "2021-10-01T14:26:03Z")
Someone who’s incapable of coming near a woman without obviously staring at her boobs should probably stay away from other humans altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/346 "2021-10-01T14:45:34Z")
> [@Cathy967](#): > > Some men are choosing to keep at arms length with women at work to avoid allegations of being reported. I think we need a definition of “arm’s length”. If you actually man 3 feet, than I agree, but if you mean aloof or even off-putting, I don’t. I think common sense behavior is quite adequate, to be honest. Say good morning, smile, be a pleasant colleague. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/347 "2021-10-01T17:04:37Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Someone who’s incapable of coming near a woman without obviously staring at her boobs should probably stay away from other humans altogether. Eh, I’ll give adolescent boys who have only just discovered the attraction of boobs a couple of weeks to learn to deal with it. And i wouldn’t lock them away from society during that time. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/348 "2021-10-01T20:52:14Z")
> [@eyeamnicegirl](#): > > He stays as far away from women as possible, Go with that. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/349 "2021-10-01T21:25:20Z")
> [@Esprise\_Me](#): > > Do I get to pick my prize? Can I choose to get a shred of evidence for any of that? You may have two hours of PTO but they can only be used on leap days. > [@MandaJo](#): > > Also, “getting a talking to” presented as Fate Worse then Death, AND “back in the day”! In 2018, we started seeing an uptick in women complaining about relatively minor instances of bad behavior they probably wouldn’t have come to us for in 2015 or 2016. And I’m avoiding the word harassment here because these were very minor instances that didn’t quite reach that level at the time but left unchecked may have escalated to that point. Believe me, it’s better for all parties involved that they “get a talking to” early in that stage instead of waiting for things to escalate. For the most part the behavior was nipped in the bud, we didn’t have to issue any warnings, and nobody had to put up with a bad work environment. Ultimately everyone wins when we talk things out before it becomes a serious problem. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/350 "2021-10-01T21:50:00Z")
No, no, no, getting “called on the carpet” for staring at a woman’s boobs is way worse than all the women you come into contact with having to tolerate boorish behavior for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/351 "2021-10-01T22:27:24Z")
I mean, women should be used to that stuff by now. Men have never had to deal with this stuff before, so it’s a little unfair to ask them to start so late in the game. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/352 "2021-10-08T14:57:05Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > > [@Max\_S](#): > > > > Would “okay, I’ll help you with that project but you owe me lunch/a drink” count? IMO that’s not necessarily sexual harassment, but it is _quid pro quo_ . > > I have never done this, but when I have helped people on an extraordinary scale (say 10-20 hours of work that is not remotely in my job description) they might say that they will stand me lunch or a beer. I have accepted only if we are already in the habit of eating lunch together in the cafeteria or a fast casual place around the office. Most of the time the other party has been female (most are analysts I have previously mentored but are now nominally peers, and all of them have been female). I’ve never gotten the impression that anyone was creeped out by the offer or acceptance. > > If I’m expecting a private three course lunch in Brasserie Le Coze with someone of the opposite sex with whom I never or rarely lunch with otherwise or cocktails at a rooftop lounge after work where no other colleagues are, that’s all kinds of sketchy. A lot of it is context obviously. I’ve spent most of my career working in consulting firms out of Manhattan (and to a lesser extent, Boston). Traveling with a female colleague, eating meals in a restaurant like Brasserie Le Coze, and rooftop cocktails is fairly common. As per custom, typically the most senior person pays (and expenses). Although, I suppose back in the day, “sexual harassment” and inappropriate behavior was also pretty common. But it also seemed pretty clear to me what the difference was. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/353 "2021-10-08T15:49:26Z")
One thing I learned over the years as a working woman, is that there are things you never mention in conversation. NEVER mention showering or bathing. If you are doing manual labor outdoors in 90 degree weather, it might be easy to slip up and say something like “I can’t wait to get home and take a shower.” Way too often, maybe not every time, but way too often, men will take this as a come-on or an invitation to imagine you naked. NEVER mention your bed. If you have been working grueling hours, it’s OKto say “I can’t wait to get home and go to sleep”. “I can’t wait to get home and go to bed” - not so much. NEVER mention dressing or undressing, in any context. No matter how uncomfortable your work clothes are, never say anything about wanting to get out of them. A girl I worked was chatting with a neighbor in the elevator or her building and said something like “I can’t wait to get out of this outfit.” A few days later the guy invited her over for a drink and attempted to assault her — he took her casual comment as a come-on. I know this sounds stupid, but so are some men. I found out a long time ago that my work life was a lot easier if I treated the fact that I took showers, changed clothes and owned a bed like a dirty little secret instead of a part of normal life. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/354 "2021-10-08T16:18:15Z")
That’s interesting. I was at the dentists a few months ago to have a wisdom tooth removed. The male assistant was telling me, I need to rinse regularly. He said: “What I do is, when I’m in the shower… I can tell you this since we’re both men… I just open up and try to let the water hit the area directly and then spit it out” I thought the “I can tell you this since we’re both men” statement was odd. Bc I wouldn’t hesitate to tell a women “Yeah I rinse in the shower…” But now I guess I get where that statement is coming from after reading your post. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/355 "2021-10-08T16:30:18Z")
You know, I generally am comfortable with men. Most of my friends are men, I’ve shared hotel rooms with male friends, and I’ve rarely had any issues at work. But I don’t talk about showering, removing my cloths, or my bed at work either. I might say I can’t wait to change into jeans, or I want to go to sleep. But yeah, I never say anything that suggests my own nakedness. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2021, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/356 "2021-10-08T23:33:00Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > You know, I generally am comfortable with men. Most of my friends are men, I’ve shared hotel rooms with male friends, and I’ve rarely had any issues at work. > > But I don’t talk about showering, removing my cloths, or my bed at work either. I might say I can’t wait to change into jeans, or I want to go to sleep. But yeah, I never say anything that suggests my own nakedness To be fair this statement is true for me too and I’m a dude. Suggesting being naked is weird in general and probably why some dudes take it as a come on. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/357 "2021-10-09T23:54:56Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > To be fair this statement is true for me too and I’m a dude. Suggesting being naked is weird in general and probably why some dudes take it as a come on. Women talk to other women all the time about nakedness, and bodily functions in general. So I guess it’s only true for men, that talking about nakedness is weird? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/358 "2021-10-10T01:13:57Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > To be fair this statement is true for me too and I’m a dude. Suggesting being naked is weird in general and probably why some dudes take it as a come on. She said she avoids comments which would acknowledge that there would be a state in which the person is not wearing clothes rather than openly state “I’m going to get naked!” You have never said or heard another guy mention taking a shower? At trade shows, we would agree to meet up for dinner and it would be common for guys to say that they wanted to shower first. I read her comments as saying she would avoid using words such as “shower.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/359 "2021-10-10T02:54:01Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Women talk to other women all the time about nakedness, and bodily functions in general. So I guess it’s only true for men, that talking about nakedness is weird? I know some men do, but for myself I don’t feel comfortable talking to casual acquaintances about nudity or bodily functions. It’s the prude in me, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/360 "2021-10-10T15:06:56Z")
It’s the end of the workday. I have a dinner business meeting in a couple of hours. A coworker asks me if I want to get a drink and I say “No, I want to go home and shower and change clothes before dinner. Do you really think I’m “suggesting being naked” and “I shouldn’t be surprised” if the person whose invitation I just turned down takes it as a come on. Really? And I’m not sure I’ve ever “talked about being naked” with anyone, except the one time I tried to convince the friends I was vacationing with to go skinny-dipping. I’ve talked about bodily functions with female friends, I’ve discussed perceived physical flaws with female friends, but “talking about being naked”? I’m not even sure what that means or what it would sound like. It’s not women ever say things like “Hey, Jane …I got naked last night because I needed a shower. Have you ever done that?” But I will give you this……if someone ever actually uses the word “naked” when talking about showering, they probably ARE coming on to you. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/361 "2021-10-11T15:10:47Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > But I don’t talk about showering, removing my cloths […] at work either. […] But yeah, I never say anything that suggests my own nakedness. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > To be fair this statement is true for me too and I’m a dude. Suggesting being naked is weird in general Me too, although it wouldn’t be weird if the person was working outside, exercising, on the beach, broken AC today, &etc. ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906.md?page=19)