# Men who avoid women at work because of fear of alleged reports of sexual harassment **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 1, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906 "2021-09-01T15:02:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/362 "2021-10-11T17:08:19Z")
Does “I’m going to go home, take a shower and head back out” seem like “talking about nakedness” to you. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/363 "2021-10-12T01:54:53Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > It’s the end of the workday. I have a dinner business meeting in a couple of hours. A coworker asks me if I want to get a drink and I say “No, I want to go home and shower and change clothes before dinner. Ya, I’d think that the shower was a weird addition. Why wouldn’t you just say “No, I need to get ready for dinner” it doesn’t matter if you need to call the kids, rub one out or take a shower its just a weird thing to talk about with coworkers. I could easily see people thinking you were coming on to them. Turn it around and and older guy tells his young female coworker he’s going to go up to his room and shower before dinner that’s obviously inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/364 "2021-10-12T01:57:06Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Turn it around and and older guy tells his young female coworker he’s going to go up to his room and shower before dinner that’s obviously inappropriate. It is? ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/365 "2021-10-12T02:00:10Z")
Maybe just in my opinion but it sure feels like one of the scenes in the sexual harassment videos I had to watch when I had a real job. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/366 "2021-10-12T02:12:35Z")
“sorry, i can’t do drinks with you because i need to go to home and shower and change before dinner” sounds like sexual harassment? Maybe this is a “men are from Mars” thing, but that sounds so incredibly unthreatening and non-sexual to me. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/367 "2021-10-12T02:17:43Z")
ISTM that the omitted key phrase “and change clothes” places the emphasis on the much less personal issue of needing to be appropriately dressed for going out to dinner. It would indeed be a bit weird just to announce your personal hygiene plans out of context, but the way Ann\_Hedonia actually phrased it was a perfectly respectable thing to say in a work context. Admittedly, there are indeed a lot of lip-licking letches in work contexts who will do their best to read a lascivious subtext into even perfectly respectable remarks, because that’s how they get their jollies and/or their power trips. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/368 "2021-10-12T03:41:49Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I’d think that the shower was a weird addition. Why wouldn’t you just say “No, I need to get ready for dinner” it doesn’t matter if you need to call the kids, rub one out or take a shower its just a weird thing to talk about with coworkers. I could easily see people thinking you were coming on to them. Turn it around and and older guy tells his young female coworker he’s going to go up to his room and shower before dinner that’s obviously inappropriate. I’ve worked with a number of mixed-gender groups of people among whom it was entirely routine for somebody to mention taking a shower. It doesn’t strike me as any stranger than mentioning that one’s going to eat dinner; whether it’s an old guy saying it or a young woman or vice versa. ETA: what really strikes me as weird is your saying that you can easily see people taking it as a come-on. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/369 "2021-10-12T04:32:21Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I’ve worked with a number of mixed-gender groups of people among whom it was entirely routine for somebody to mention taking a shower. To be fair, though, aren’t you a farmer? When youse guys need a shower you really need a shower. (And all we food consumers are grateful for your hard work!) ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/370 "2021-10-12T13:33:50Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > To be fair, though, aren’t you a farmer? That might well have something to do with it. I still think it’s really odd for someone to assume that mentioning a shower is the same thing as making a pass, though; at least, unless it comes with strong body language and tone of voice indicating that. (And thanks for the thanks!) ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/371 "2021-10-12T13:48:49Z")
I agree. Showering, to me, isn’t an activity I need to be euphemistic about. I mean, I might casually say at lunch “Halfway through my shower this morning, I had the best idea about how to teach [something] and I had to run to school to redo all my lesson plans for today”. I’d never say "sitting on the toilet this morning . . . ". Have I been horribly uncouth all these years? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/372 "2021-10-12T14:02:54Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > ISTM that the omitted key phrase “and change clothes” places the emphasis on the much less personal issue of needing to be appropriately dressed for going out to dinner. > > It would indeed be a bit weird just to announce your personal hygiene plans out of context, but the way Ann\_Hedonia actually phrased it was a perfectly respectable thing to say in a work context. > > Admittedly, there are indeed a lot of lip-licking letches in work contexts who will do their best to read a lascivious subtext into even perfectly respectable remarks, because that’s how they get their jollies and/or their power trips. Seriously. And there are some men who are always looking real hard for clues that you might be into them, and they tend to find them in whatever you do. I framed my example the way I did for a reason. Dude, if I liked you I would’ve, you know, gone out for that drink with you. I turned you down. I wasn’t inviting you to imagine me without clothes. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/373 "2021-10-12T14:16:14Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Maybe just in my opinion but it sure feels like one of the scenes in the sexual harassment videos I had to watch when I had a real job. Then yours deal with a lot more subtly than the ones I had to watch. Our had the boss come up to the female coworker making copies, look at her butt and go, “Mmmmmmmm. Girl you got a phat ass.” Yeah it was a racist as it sounds. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/374 "2021-10-12T14:51:09Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > it sure feels like one of the scenes in the sexual harassment videos I had to watch when I had a real job What was the context? I can certainly imagine scenes illustrating sexual harassment in which the word “shower” or “bath” is mentioned. But I can’t see the mention itself being construed that way unless the context otherwise indicated it. > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > And there are some men who are always looking real hard for clues that you might be into them, and they tend to find them in whatever you do. Yeah. Some people will interpret anything at all as indicating sexual interest in them; because they’re looking for excuses. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/375 "2021-10-12T16:13:33Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Yeah. Some people will interpret anything at all as indicating sexual interest in them; because they’re looking for excuses Like I said, it feels like one of those scenes, I couldn’t tell you a single scene since its been close to 15 years since I had to watch a sexual harassments video. The general gist was that people are constantly looking for things to be sexual and any things that could be construed as sexual should be avoided. So no talking about beds, or acts that involved being naked like changing clothes or taking showers. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/376 "2021-10-12T16:15:49Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > The general gist was that people are constantly looking for things to be sexual Huh. That’s not the sense I’ve gotten from the ones I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/377 "2021-10-12T16:30:57Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I’ve worked with a number of mixed-gender groups of people among whom it was entirely routine for somebody to mention taking a shower. It doesn’t strike me as any stranger than mentioning that one’s going to eat dinner; whether it’s an old guy saying it or a young woman or vice versa. > > ETA: what really strikes me as weird is your saying that you can easily see people taking it as a come-on. At the office I used to work at, they had showers for people who wanted to ride their bikes into work, or do a non-gym workout during lunch. I’m a man, and on at least a couple of occasions, I had conversations with men that used the showers about shower-quality, logistics of changing clothes, and availability of the showers. Some of the impetus of those conversations may have been familiarity, but it would have seemed both weird and hazardous for me to have those conversations with women. And I’ve got to admit, I totally understand Ann Hedonia’s point. > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > One thing I learned over the years as a working woman, is that there are things you never mention in conversation. > > NEVER mention showering or bathing. If you are doing manual labor outdoors in 90 degree weather, it might be easy to slip up and say something like “I can’t wait to get home and take a shower.” Way too often, maybe not every time, but way too often, men will take this as a come-on or an invitation to imagine you naked. When Sweaty Dave drops his stuff off at his desk and says he’ll be back in 15 minutes, he needs to take a quick shower, it’s pretty much “whatever, I’ll see you in 15 minutes.” Sweaty Michelle is probably trying to avoid going to her desk in workout clothes, and if she does, is probably not going to mention taking a shower. But if she does mention it, what comes to mind is definitely different than “whatever”. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/378 "2021-10-12T23:56:27Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Maybe this is a “men are from Mars” thing, It’s not. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > but that sounds so incredibly unthreatening and non-sexual to me. You’re right. I’m a man. It’s clearly non-sexual. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2021, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/379 "2021-10-13T00:13:33Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I mean, I might casually say at lunch “Halfway through my shower this morning, I had the best idea about how to teach [something] and I had to run to school to redo all my lesson plans for today”. I’d never say "sitting on the toilet this morning . . . ". Have I been horribly uncouth all these years? I wouldn’t say either of those things, but I don’t know that there needs to be a value judgment on it. Some people are more comfortable with some things than others. If someone mentioned having a good idea while in the shower, I wouldn’t be imagining them naked or thinking they were coming on to me, but if I were to say something about being in the shower myself, it’d make me a little uncomfortable, is all. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2021, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/380 "2021-10-13T02:11:35Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > When Sweaty Dave drops his stuff off at his desk and says he’ll be back in 15 minutes, he needs to take a quick shower, it’s pretty much “whatever, I’ll see you in 15 minutes.” Sweaty Michelle is probably trying to avoid going to her desk in workout clothes, and if she does, is probably not going to mention taking a shower. But if she does mention it, what comes to mind is definitely different than “whatever”. But is “what comes to mind” that you think she’s trying to make a pass at you? And is “what comes to mind” that because she mentioned needing a shower you think you’re entitled to behave toward or about her as if she’d invited sex? Yes, presuming you’re a heterosexual male, you’re more likely to be interested in the idea of Michelle in the shower than of Dave in the shower. A gay man, or a straight woman, may have the reaction to sweaty Dave that you do to sweaty Michelle. The question’s not the instinctive reaction. The question is what you do about it, either in what conclusions you draw or in how you behave. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2021, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906/381 "2021-10-13T04:25:20Z")
There’s a subreddit and conversational meme called “shower thoughts,” which is not sexual. There’s a common figure of speech about needing a shower after seeing or hearing about something gross, which is the opposite of sexual. Even movie shower scenes are as likely to be played for laughs or horror as they are to be sexual, and they can occur in PG-rated movies (Fly Away Home, Elf, Home Alone). Interpreting a neutral mention of a shower by a co-worker as a come-on is as stupid as it is creepy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-who-avoid-women-at-work-because-of-fear-of-alleged-reports-of-sexual-harassment/949906.md?page=20)