# Men: Why are you paying for the date? Women: Why do you accept it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 19, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668 "2017-07-19T18:43:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/21 "2017-07-19T21:16:12Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Well, I can only speak anecdotally, but I know for a fact that I’m making more money than most of the women I have dated. That’s just going by our respective job titles alone. > > And even if we did have comparable job titles. Statistics say, she’s making 76 cents on every dollar that I make. Yes, that’s sexists, but that’s not my doing. If I had my say, women would be making the same as I am. > > I did date a woman who I assumed was making more money than I was. I still paid on our first date because I was the one that invited. This is a bit silly, **Grrr**. If you meet a woman you’ve never met before and you two decide to have a dinner together, you’re paying for it because she’s statistically “making 76 cents on every dollar that [you] make”? That’s mighty _chivalresque_. But **Grrr** , assuming she made much more money than you? Twice the money, thrice the money. – Do you ask her first, before you flash the chivalric Mastercard, or do you just _assume_, her being a lady, which is rather the point of my thread? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/22 "2017-07-19T21:36:27Z")
> [@Wakinyan](#): > > This is a bit silly, **Grrr**. If you meet a woman you’ve never met before and you two decide to have a dinner together, you’re paying for it because she’s statistically “making 76 cents on every dollar that [you] make”? That’s mighty _chivalresque_. > > But **Grrr** , assuming she made much more money than you? Twice the money, thrice the money. – Do you ask her first, before you flash the chivalric Mastercard, or do you just _assume_, her being a lady, which is rather the point of my thread? I’m not pulling that 76 cents thing out of the air. Those are the statistics (Have you listened to the news lately?). And even if all things are equal, women typically have more expenses than men do. This is especially true for single mothers. I’m not offering to pay because I’m the one with the penis. I’m offering to pay because I’m the one with more disposable income. It just makes sense to me. However, I should note, I’m speaking of the beginning stages. Every serious relationship I’ve been in, the woman has contributed her fair share. Unexpected gifts, picking up the tab, and when she doesn’t pick up the tab, she often insists on taking care of the tip. Which has always been appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/23 "2017-07-19T21:37:22Z")
> [@Wakinyan](#): > > Your post has a few good points (so I’m snipping it ;)), but nonetheless say you happen to sit next to a guy at ball game and during the game you start to talk and before you know it you’re having a great time with the fellow, and he suggest you take a beer and a burger at the local sports bar after the game. > > At the sports bar there’s no chance in hell you’d expect him to pay because he “invited” you. If he did, wouldn’t you after a few beers say, something like, weirdo, I am able to pay my own beers? > > Translate this to a woman you met at an art gallery. “Hey, what about a drink?” you say. > > My point is that who’s “inviting” is not the decisive factor. You’re right, it was lacking in specificity. It’s about who invites within the context of a possible romantic/sexual relationship. Actively sharing resources helps promote the idea that there’s an “Us” rather than a “You & I”. Also, given that it’s a common way to signal romantic/sexual interest, if you offered to pay for a guy you met at a ball game, he might think you’re hitting on him : ) ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/24 "2017-07-19T21:42:48Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Most of the guys I’ve dated, save for two I think, have been either jobless or “under employed” (poor). They had no problem letting me pay. It was kind of like - if I didn’t pay, we couldn’t go out and do anything. [snip] I’ve been of the receiving end of that, so to speak, “under employed (poor)”, where the generosity of this girl or that (sorry if this sounds dismissive, from the bottom of my heart it is not) was a \*sine qua non \*to pretty much have a social life. I think the guys you’re thinking of are as embarrassed to this day as I am. One wished it to be different, no one wants to be depended on a nice fellow’s generosity, and I believe we who were, at some point or another, is eternally grateful. Yes, for that beer. That beer that made the all difference in the world, however stupid it sounds decades later. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/25 "2017-07-19T21:48:54Z")
Last time I went on a date she spoke at length about her career and also how many dates she went on and when the bill came she went very quiet. I paid but it left a sour taste in my mouth I must admit. I just wanted her to at least offer! ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/26 "2017-07-19T22:00:29Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Well, I can only speak anecdotally, but I know for a fact that I’m making more money than most of the women I have dated. That’s just going by our respective job titles alone. > > And even if we did have comparable job titles. Statistics say, she’s making 76 cents on every dollar that I make. Yes, that’s sexists, but that’s not my doing. If I had my say, women would be making the same as I am. [snip] But, **Grrr** , do you always pick up the tab when you’re having dinner with people you assume earn less than you? And wait for some one else to pick it up if you assume they earn more than you? If so I think a lot of people are be offended by this habit of yours, men and women alike, 76 cents or not. People do not generally want others to decide if you afford something or not. Whether poor or rich, it may be insulting. You meet on equal grounds, Grrr doesn’t get to decide who affords it. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/27 "2017-07-19T22:21:54Z")
> [@Wakinyan](#): > > But, **Grrr** , do you always pick up the tab when you’re having dinner with people you assume earn less than you? The person that does the inviting is the one that pays regardless of income. With my circle of friends, if it’s large gathering, it’s typically assumed everyone pays their own tab. Oftentimes, someone in the group will pick up the whole tab, but they do so surreptitiously, so no one in the group knows who paid the bill. When it comes to romance, I’m often the one that does the inviting, and by default, I’m the one asking the mother to arrange for a sitter. The lady in question often feels compelled to buy a new dress to go out on a date. I by no means expect it, but she does it anyway. The point is, she’s putting herself out there. She doesn’t have to, but she does. She may not pick up the tab, but that damn sure doesn’t mean she hasn’t contributed to the date. ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/28 "2017-07-19T22:26:01Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > You’re right, it was lacking in specificity. It’s about who invites within the context of a possible romantic/sexual relationship. Actively sharing resources helps promote the idea that there’s an “Us” rather than a “You & I”. > > Also, given that it’s a common way to signal romantic/sexual interest, if you offered to pay for a guy you met at a ball game, he might think you’re hitting on him : ) In principal I think you’re right, but I also think that this angle is diverting from the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/29 "2017-07-19T22:58:54Z")
To broaden the conversation a bit, there is also sometimes a sort of competition among men as to who can pay the bill. And the sociology of it is that the person paying the bill is the social superior, the person who accepts the gift of a meal is the social inferior. So that guy you just met at the sportsball game who wants to pay the bill for your casual meal? He’s trying to establish himself as a big shot. So…when my wife and I visited with her parents, her dad would pay the bill. And that was fine with me, because I was fine accepting that social role. And, you know, they had quite a bit of money and we were just keeping the bills paid. But when out with my mom and her husband? I didn’t like having him pay the bills, because I didn’t like that patron-client relationship coming from him. Nothing wrong with him, but he’s my mom’s husband, not my step-father, if you see what I mean. So anyway, when the man pays on a date with a woman, that puts him in the patron position and her in the client position. Nothing wrong with that, if that’s what you’re into. I don’t judge your alternative lifestyle. ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/30 "2017-07-19T23:22:46Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > **The point is** , she’s putting herself out there. She doesn’t have to, but she does. She may not pick up the tab, but that damn sure doesn’t mean she hasn’t contributed to the date. I’m afraid I will never understand you. [Emphasis added to the quote.] ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/31 "2017-07-19T23:28:12Z")
Back when I was dating, I not only paid for the date but I also arrived on time to pick her up. And made sure I (along with my clothes) were neat and clean. If she was living with her parents, I made sure to introduce myself to her dad and made sure to have a compliment ready for her mom. (I learned that from Eddie Haskell.) I opened the car door for her and held her hand while she sat down on the seat. I asked for a table at the restaurant so I could move the chair out for her and gently moved it back so she was comfortably seated. The dinner conversation was all about her. Etc., etc., etc… Why was I doing all this? I sincerely believed it greatly enhanced my chances of getting “lucky” later in the evening. It wasn’t really costing me anything, so why not? The girls certainly didn’t seem to mind and you’ll never convince me that it didn’t help when we were alone later. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/32 "2017-07-19T23:38:12Z")
Here’s one theory that may have some truth to it, though I don’t know how much: Men and women have evolved differences in what they find attractive in potential mates. Women more than men are attracted to wealth, success, the ability to be a good provider. Spending money on his partner (by paying for dates, buying gifts, etc.) is how men demonstrate this to potential partners. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/33 "2017-07-19T23:42:12Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > Why was I doing all this? I sincerely believed it greatly enhanced my chances of getting “lucky” later in the evening. It wasn’t really costing me anything, so why not? The girls certainly didn’t seem to mind and you’ll never convince me that it didn’t help when we were alone later. This. I wasn’t aware it was a big mystery why men paid for the date 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/34 "2017-07-19T23:46:53Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This. I wasn’t aware it was a big mystery why men paid for the date 😕 Same reason that they pay for a prostitute. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/35 "2017-07-19T23:48:21Z")
> [@Wakinyan](#): > > I’m afraid I will never understand you. > [Emphasis added to the quote.] Well, if your idea of me is: “Oh no baby, don’t you worry your pretty little head. I’ll pay for this.” You’re wrong. If the lady says she wants to pay, I’ll sure let her. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/36 "2017-07-19T23:54:11Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Same reason that they pay for a prostitute. Yeah, but a prostitute has less conversation 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/37 "2017-07-20T00:36:38Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/38 "2017-07-20T04:16:26Z")
> [@Wakinyan](#): > > How do you accept that, as a woman? Or do you? Well, yes, as a woman I have gone on dates where the man paid. I try to reciprocate but men can be surprisingly resistant to the notion. And there are some men who expect the reciprocation to be sex and don’t want anything else. Sometimes, if the man can’t handle a woman paying for a dinner in a restaurant, I’ll cook a dinner for him but if a man can’t handle me paying for the party (so to speak) at least some of the time he doesn’t hold my interest over the long term. But I may very well be an exception. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/39 "2017-07-20T13:33:33Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Same reason that they pay for a prostitute. They want the date to leave without any fuss at the end? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2017, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668/40 "2017-07-20T13:43:07Z")
My wife made more money than me for most of our marriage. I still paid when we went out to dinner, and still do. I always at least try to pick up the tab when I go out for drinks with friends - male or female. If they want to pay or split the tab, I’ll let them. So it wouldn’t be odd for me to pick up the tab for a date if I was still single. Having said that, if my date didn’t at least make a half-hearted attempt to pay, I probably wouldn’t go out with her again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/men-why-are-you-paying-for-the-date-women-why-do-you-accept-it/791668.md?page=3)