# Men's dress levels vis-a-vie women's **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 21, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002 "2009-09-21T21:49:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/1 "2009-09-21T21:49:10Z")
For my birthday, we’re going to [Fogo de Chao](http://www.fogodechao.com/). My girlfriend asked what she should wear. I told her that I wore jeans the last time but she should wear slacks. I said “It’s a nice restaurant, but men can wear jeans.” She was shocked by this statement. I argued that as you go up the “dressiness” ladder, women lose the jeans before men do. I said “What do men wear with sports blazers? Jeans!” She said “No, you have to wear dark slacks.” She then said that khakis are a level higher than black slacks for a man. I said if anything, the opposite is true. So… 1. Are khakis dressier than black slacks? 2. What do men wear with sports jacket? 3. Can men wear jeans at higher levels than women? ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/2 "2009-09-21T22:46:38Z")
I know that khakis are the same a blue jeans when it comes to what is or is not acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/3 "2009-09-21T22:48:03Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > 1. Are khakis dressier than black slacks? > 2. What do men wear with sports jacket? > 3. Can men wear jeans at higher levels than women? 1. No 2. Jeans or Khaki slacks. 3. Yes. If they have the accessories. (Obviously Tshirts and Jeans is not the same as Collared shirt and Jeans and again vs. Sports Jacket and Jeans). ---
**Author:** ![Superorganism](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c57346/32.png) [@Superorganism](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superorganism)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/4 "2009-09-21T22:56:28Z")
The only jeans that should accompany a sports jacket are extremely dark, fitted, and minimally washed (if at all). Women can get away with the same thing. All denim is not created equal. This would be fine: [http://assets.tobi.com/files/product\_color/main/129644/DSC\_2844-.jpg](http://assets.tobi.com/files/product_color/main/129644/DSC_2844-.jpg) These would not: [http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/66/66343/gfferre\_light\_blue\_womens\_jeans\_7.jpg](http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/66/66343/gfferre_light_blue_womens_jeans_7.jpg) Khakis are no dressier than anything else, and “black pants” is ambiguous – if they are woolens, they are likely “dressier.” Better dress pants would more likely be navy or charcoal, as black tends to be either for waitstaff or formal events. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/5 "2009-09-21T23:19:48Z")
> [@Superorganism](#): > > This would be fine: > [http://assets.tobi.com/files/product\_color/main/129644/DSC\_2844-.jpg](http://assets.tobi.com/files/product_color/main/129644/DSC_2844-.jpg) I’ll say. Hey waiter… ---
**Author:** ![hobscrk777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@hobscrk777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobscrk777)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/6 "2009-09-21T23:32:30Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > 1. Are khakis dressier than black slacks? > 2. What do men wear with sports jacket? > 3. Can men wear jeans at higher levels than women? IMHO. 1. No. Never. 2. In increasing level of dressiness (i.e. most casual first) (i) Jeans (ii) Khakis (iii) black or dark navy dress pants that match the jacket. 3. I’m not entirely sure how to interpret this question. Typically, men are more likely to wear jeans to more to a more formal event than women are, in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2009, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/7 "2009-09-21T23:38:49Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > 1. Are khakis dressier than black slacks? > 2. What do men wear with sports jacket? > 3. Can men wear jeans at higher levels than women? 1. No. Tan cotton trousers are more casual than dark worsted trousers. 2. Men can wear jeans, cotton chinos, worsted wool trousers, or all sorts of other things with a sports jacket. They can even wear Bermuda shorts if they really want to and commit to the whole “Bermuda” look. (ok not very many men could pull that off) 3. Absolutely not. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/8 "2009-09-22T14:36:42Z")
> [@hobscrk777](#): > > 1. In increasing level of dressiness (i.e. most casual first) > (i) Jeans > (ii) Khakis > (iii) black or dark navy dress pants that match the jacket Blue jeans, carhartts, baggy jeans Cargo pants Dressier jeans (darker wash, trendier tailoring) Khakis or other chino/cotton pants Dress trousers ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/9 "2009-09-22T14:43:29Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > I know that khakis are the same a blue jeans when it comes to what is or is not acceptable. Completely untrue. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/10 "2009-09-22T15:16:20Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > I know that khakis are the same a blue jeans when it comes to what is or is not acceptable. That’s certainly not true at my workplace. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/11 "2009-09-22T15:46:31Z")
Turns out, I misunderstood the khakis vs slacks argument. She was saying that khakis equal a skirt, which falls in many different places on the ladder. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/12 "2009-09-22T16:08:59Z")
What does skirts vs. pants have to do with it? Is she assuming that a skirt is automatically “dressy?” Men can not wear jeans at “higher levels” than women. Khakis are more dressy than jeans and less dressy than most dark slacks. What you can wear with a sport coat depends on the sport coat and the occasion and your personal style. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/13 "2009-09-22T16:31:37Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > 1. Are khakis dressier than black slacks? > 2. What do men wear with sports jacket? > 3. Can men wear jeans at higher levels than women? 1, no; 2, jeans, khakis, or slacks; 3, irrelevant. I have a suspicion that the discussion here is centering around what level of dress is appropriate for the restaurant. I think the better yardstick is to dress at a level appropriate for your date. So as she moves up the dressiness scale, you better, too, buster. And that means no jeans! ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/14 "2009-09-22T18:19:57Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > What does skirts vs. pants have to do with it? Is she assuming that a skirt is automatically “dressy?” > > Men can not wear jeans at “higher levels” than women. Have to agree here, but either gender can wear jeans with a dressier effect if they wear a blazer or sport jacket–as long as the jeans fit. Business-y looking impedimenta help too, if it’s that kind of event. These would be things like briefcases, computer bags, leather portfolios, and so on. I wouldn’t say that women are any less able to “get away” with wearing jeans. From a couple of early office gopher jobs I had in the 1970s you would have thought the reverse. Far more women than men could be seen wearing jeans; yet, this may have been a reflection of the way different jobs were distributed between the genders. Men typically had the higher level jobs involving external contacts, still usually cited as one of the best reasons for dressing up on the job. Women usually had lower-level back-office jobs. I will say that men tend to wear jeans more as a matter of preference, and this gender difference widens the older we get. Fifty-year old women in jeans–don’t see it very often. Fifty-year old men? All the time. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/15 "2009-09-22T19:07:03Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > 1. Are khakis dressier than black slacks? > 2. What do men wear with sports jacket? > 3. Can men wear jeans at higher levels than women? 1. no 2. for me, usually jeans, sometimes khakis, rarely anything else 3. depends on the setting - in an oil town, probably. but i’m sure that’s more to do with women’s perceptions of what is allowed than men’s also, everytime i see this thread title the pedant in my screams in horror. ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/16 "2009-09-22T19:12:31Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > 1. no > 2. for me, usually jeans, sometimes khakis, rarely anything else > 3. depends on the setting - in an oil town, probably. but i’m sure that’s more to do with women’s perceptions of what is allowed than men’s > > also, everytime i see this thread title the pedant in my screams in horror. Vis-a-vis. The first “s” is pronounced because there’s a vowel right after it–it’s more like “vee-sa-vee.” The second “s” is silent because it’s at the end of the word/phrase. As for clothes, I don’t know. I have no fashion skill at all, so I just go by what others say, and I just stay confused if there’s no consensus. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/17 "2009-09-22T20:01:34Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > also, everytime i see this thread title the pedant in my screams in horror. Also, every time I see this thread title, the pedant in me screams in horror. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/18 "2009-09-23T02:21:56Z")
It’s now widely accepted that men, especially young men, can dress one or two levels of “dressy” below women in social situations. Doing otherwise is no longer considered hip or sexy outside certain urban centers that participated in the “metrosexual” phenomenon several years back. Eventually, such sloppiness will become not just expected, but compulsory, and any man who dresses a little more traditionally will be breaking etiquette and making people uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/19 "2009-09-23T14:34:59Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > It’s now widely accepted that men, especially young men, can dress one or two levels of “dressy” below women in social situations. Doing otherwise is no longer considered hip or sexy outside certain urban centers that participated in the “metrosexual” phenomenon several years back. > > Eventually, such sloppiness will become not just expected, but compulsory, and any man who dresses a little more traditionally will be breaking etiquette and making people uncomfortable. I think it is pretty compulsory in a lot of situations already. I find myself in a lot of social situations where the women are all wearing nice dresses - not exceedingly formal but enough that a suit or at least a sports jacket and tie would once have been an appropriate complement for her date. All the guys wear shirts and pants ranging from dressy jeans to wool trousers. I buck the trend by wearing a sports jacket sans tie and fit in ok, but I’d certainly be out of place any more dressed up. ---
**Author:** ![Serenata67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/serenata67/32/10646_2.png) [@Serenata67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serenata67)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002/20 "2009-09-24T14:20:20Z")
1. Khakis are one notch above jeans. My fiance hates dressing up, but will put on khakis and a polo shirt if I beg him. 2. Nice, nice jeans or slacks in a matching color. (Although, I’ve personally never been much of a fan of the jeans-and-a-jacket look.) 3. can they? Yes. Should they? No. It sets a bad double standard. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-dress-levels-vis-a-vie-womens/511002.md?page=2)