# Men's Fashion Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 19, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715 "2006-12-19T00:51:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/1 "2006-12-19T00:51:29Z")
I f you look at men’s suits from the 1870’s, men’s jackets had two small buttons on the bck of the jacket. You can still see these on the formal “Morning” suit. So when did these ornaments finally disappear? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/2 "2006-12-19T02:45:20Z")
The buttons date from when suit jackets almost always had tails. The buttons were used to tie up the tails for riding. I’m guessing that the introduction of the tuxedo (not tie and tails, but the tailless dinner jacket) in (according to the legend) 1886 was the beginning of the end for the back buttons on (tailless) suit coats. That’s just a WAG, though. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/3 "2006-12-19T02:54:30Z")
If I may ask another men’s fashion question, what do you call those awesome-looking coats that are longer than your average suit jacket but shorter than a long coat (such as a trench coat)? They are typically worn by the wealthy and stylish, usually as part of a suit (instead of the traditional length suit jacket). For what it’s worth, John Glover wears these a lot on Smallville, playing the billionaire Lionel Luthor, and I’ve seen similar coats worn in Westerns, where “dandies” are out gambling in saloons. It’s definitely an older (MUCH older) style that seems to have come back a bit, but you’re not going to see lawyers wearing these in court, or young guys out at clubs sporting this look. It screams “I have a lot of money and style to spare, and I’m a badass!” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/4 "2006-12-19T03:21:40Z")
Dusters? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/5 "2006-12-19T03:36:55Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] If I may ask another men’s fashion question, what do you call those awesome-looking coats that are longer than your average suit jacket but shorter than a long coat (such as a trench coat)? They are typically worn by the wealthy and stylish, usually as part of a suit (instead of the traditional length suit jacket). For what it’s worth, John Glover wears these a lot on Smallville, playing the billionaire Lionel Luthor, and I’ve seen similar coats worn in Westerns, where “dandies” are out gambling in saloons. It’s definitely an older (MUCH older) style that seems to have come back a bit, but you’re not going to see lawyers wearing these in court, or young guys out at clubs sporting this look. It screams “I have a lot of money and style to spare, and I’m a badass!” [/QUOTE] Hmm. I’m not sure what you mean. Could you mean an [overcoat](http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatSectionView.process?IWAction=Load&Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=222&CMP=KNC-R4S023216785)? ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/6 "2006-12-19T03:36:57Z")
[Mourning coat?](http://www.costumes.org/ADVICE/manifestobook/BOOK1/PICT0006.JPG) I like these, but sadly you really only ever see them at crappy tux rental places at the mall. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/7 "2006-12-19T03:42:02Z")
[QUOTE=Cluricaun] [Mourning coat?](http://www.costumes.org/ADVICE/manifestobook/BOOK1/PICT0006.JPG) I like these, but sadly you really only ever see them at crappy tux rental places at the mall. [/QUOTE] Ah, also known as a cutaway. Is [this one on the right](http://www.uniformalwearhouse.com/apages/tuxedojackets_trad.html) what you mean, **Lou**? ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/8 "2006-12-19T05:07:12Z")
Kinda sorta. Similar length, but not quite what I had in mind. But probably close enough. I knew it wasn’t a duster – my dad has a black duster with the little cape and everything, and he calls it his “hitman coat.” I have my gray double-breasted trench coat, but I really wish I had held out for a similar black one. Needless to say, I like these styles a lot, but we live in Florida so you can only wear such things a few days out of the year. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/9 "2006-12-19T05:10:26Z")
[Frock coat](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frock_coat)? Less likely, but could you mean [Reverend coat](http://www.redballs.com/id61.html)? ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/10 "2006-12-19T05:15:55Z")
[QUOTE=Zabali\_Clawbane] [Frock coat](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frock_coat)? Less likely, but could you mean [Reverend coat](http://www.redballs.com/id61.html)? [/QUOTE] Nah, more like the mourning coat, but just very fashionable and swanky-looking. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/11 "2006-12-19T05:19:24Z")
The frock coat was worn for mourning in the Victorian and Edwardian period… 😉 [QUOTE=Wikipedia] As it became better established around the 1850s it started to become accepted as formal day time ‘full dress’, thus relegating the tail coat (at the time usually referred to as a ‘dress coat’) to evening formal full dress. At this period frock became the most standard form of coat for morning dress. Through most of the Victorian era it was worn in similar situatoins that the lounge suit is worn today. Around the 1890s and increasingly through into the Edwardian era, an adaptation of the Newmarket riding coat called the morning coat - once considered a casual form of dress - started to slowly become acceptable as an alternative to the frock coat for morning dress and as standard day time full dress, gradually relegating the frock coat to only more formal situations such as court dress. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/12 "2006-12-19T05:23:50Z")
Mourning does not equal morning! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/13 "2006-12-19T05:25:04Z")
Look over that Wikipedia article anyway, there is an image on it that is probably almost exactly what you mean, of a frock/morning coat. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/14 "2006-12-19T12:32:46Z")
Lionel Luther definitely wears a shortish frock coat on a few occasions. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/15 "2006-12-19T12:43:27Z")
…and I was going to add, the frock coat is definitely the coat of [Western dandies](http://www.gentlemansemporium.com/store/coats.php#000168). Also, check out the _Firefly_ episode _Shindig_? The “reverend coat” is properly called a [cassock](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassock) and is certainly longer than **BBVL** indicates. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/16 "2006-12-19T15:38:52Z")
Thanks, everybody! ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/17 "2006-12-19T16:15:50Z")
“O’Brien! Lay out my ‘having a word with him’ suit!” (a silver florin to whoever can tell me where that’s from) (okay, not really, but guess for funzies anyway) ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/18 "2006-12-19T17:49:19Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] Thanks, everybody! [/QUOTE] OMG When I read this I heard it in a Simpsons character voice. Is it Dr. Nick who says “Hey, everybody!” ?? ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-fashion-question/384715/19 "2006-12-19T19:53:16Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] Thanks, everybody! [/QUOTE] If you mean [this](http://www.kryptonsite.com/glovergallery2.htm), then I think it’s just a very nice quality overcoat, nothing more. Brooks Brothers calls it a [long town coat](http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=222&pcount=&Product_Id=921994&Parent_Id=202).