# Men's Rights Movement may have a big future. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 7, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049 "2013-04-07T01:15:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/41 "2013-04-07T05:57:44Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > Men who would protest what they consider injustice and not be afraid of bullies. So sort of like Batman? ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/42 "2013-04-07T05:59:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So sort of like Batman? Batsomething ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/43 "2013-04-07T06:07:30Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > Men who would protest what they consider injustice and not be afraid of bullies. No one puts baby in a corner! ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/44 "2013-04-07T13:08:06Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > We dont need slanderer’s respect. > > Real men are not silenced by bullies. I guess you are implying that you are being bullied in this thread. is this true? and going back to your OP, do you realize this is not a complete sentence? > [@](#): > > Men are discriminated in divorce cases. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/45 "2013-04-07T13:32:37Z")
I’m a white male. Even though I was mercilessly fucked over in my divorce, I’m still wise enough to realize I’ve got it made. ---
**Author:** ![Rollo\_Tomasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Rollo\_Tomasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rollo_Tomasi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/46 "2013-04-07T13:51:01Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > I know I can be fired for such views. Fired from the job you don’t have and thus far have refused to entertain the thought of getting? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/47 "2013-04-07T13:58:52Z")
Let’s do a thought exercise. It’s designed for men but, women, you can do it too. Imagine the person you consider to be the ideal role model for manhood. It can be whoever, in your mind, best defines what it is to be a man: your father, your grandfather, John Wayne, Humphrey Bogart, Samuel L. Jackson, George S. Patton, James Bond, Batman, or whoever. Now picture that person in your mind and try to imagine them saying that men need to form a movement because men don’t get treated fairly in life. Can you do it? Can you imagine any person you consider to be a real man standing there and complaining about how tough it is to be a man? I can’t. But I can imagine what they’d say to somebody complaining about how tough it is to be a man. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/48 "2013-04-07T14:00:46Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’m a white male. Even though I was mercilessly fucked over in my divorce, I’m still wise enough to realize I’ve got it made. That’s a rather contradictory statement. If you have it made, then you weren’t “mercilessly fucked over”; if you were mercilessly fucked over, then you don’t have it made. Just because white males are on average better off doesn’t mean they automatically “have it made”, That attitude leads to sick stuff like sneering at homeless, dying white men because they “have it made” thanks to their gender and skin color. It also encourages racism and sexism among white males under the old principle that if you’re going to be regarded as a monster no matter what you do, you might as well be one and reap the advantages as well as the disadvantages. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Let’s do a thought exercise. It’s designed for men but, women, you can do it too. > > Imagine the person you consider to be the ideal role model for manhood. It can be whoever, in your mind, best defines what it is to be a man: your father, your grandfather, John Wayne, Humphrey Bogart, Samuel L. Jackson, George S. Patton, James Bond, Batman, or whoever. > > Now picture that person in your mind and try to imagine them saying that men need to form a movement because men don’t get treated fairly in life. > > Can you do it? Can you imagine any person you consider to be a real man standing there and complaining about how tough it is to be a man? I can’t. Nor can I, since part of being a “real man” is being a victim, a disposable tool and a target of abuse & casual murder. Someone who can be sent off to be crippled or killed without complaining, and without guilt because that’s what they are for. A “real man” is someone who ends up in an early grave, with someone who isn’t a “real man” counting the profits made by his death. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/49 "2013-04-07T14:02:52Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’m a white male. Even though I was mercilessly fucked over in my divorce, I’m still wise enough to realize I’ve got it made. If there’s anything I’ve learned from the Men’s Rights Movement, it’s that no minority, gender, orientation or affiliation more oppressed than a man denied his due tang. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/50 "2013-04-07T14:12:00Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > If there’s anything I’ve learned from the Men’s Rights Movement, it’s that no minority, gender, orientation or affiliation more oppressed than a man denied his due tang. And if there’s anything that I’ve learned from feminism, it’s that men are never oppressed, even if they are mass murdered. Not even the genocide of all men would count as oppression, according to various feminists I’ve come across over the years. But let me guess - it’s wrong to judge _feminism_ by its worst examples, while it’s just fine to judge _men_ by _their_ worst examples. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/51 "2013-04-07T14:13:09Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > I think a social justice movement by and for men that deals with the discrimination men face is long overdo. The feminist movement deals with men’s issues to a large extent, but feminists (rightly) feel it isn’t their job to deal with the oppression of men and toxic masculinity in our culture, especially at the expense of women and their issues. > > However, the Men’s Rights Movement as it is today is just a hate group. They achieve nothing, and they seek to achieve nothing, save harassing feminists. It’s just a bunch of misogynists. > > But I think a true movement for men should happen, and as a feminist myself, I absolutely support men’s rights. Just not the MRM. I don’t know anything about the MRM, But I agree with you. It’s would be nice if there were a sensable people fighting for eqaulity all the way around. > [@Telemark](#): > > No it won’t; millions of men aren’t discriminated against in day-to-day life. I don’t know if I agree with this. Discriminated against how? People can generally only be male or female. I know females are often victims of more social issues regarding discrimination… but men are under a microscope too, and expected to act or be a certain way, (not just by women). ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/52 "2013-04-07T14:15:04Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > However, the Men’s Rights Movement as it is today is just a hate group. They achieve nothing, and they seek to achieve nothing, save harassing feminists. It’s just a bunch of misogynists. It is not. We don’t hate feminists, we do wish feminists would stop trying to disrupt us from meeting and discussing men’s issues though. It’s the feminists that are harrasing MRAs, and not the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/53 "2013-04-07T14:22:30Z")
Feminism and men’s rights should be natural allies. All unfairness is a part of a system, and any system affects all of it’s components. To give an example, male stereotypes are just as harmful as female ones, and are also an integral part of the negative female ones. You can’t have equality for women without having equality for men. That said, men’s rights is never going to be taken seriously until the get a few things under control. Number one is that unfairness in how custody is awarded is a valid issue. While it is not as bad as many portray it (joint custody is routine in most places, and men can and do get primary custody) it’s still very unfair and there are some genuinely disturbing cases. But men who have no interest in custody complaining about supporting their child? You guys are going to have to kick those guys out of the movement ASAP if you expect any widespread support. To begin with, it’s not a men’s issue. Women can and do pay child support. You are not going to be taken seriously if you continually say “Men are expected to X, Y and Z!” when what you really mean is “non-custodial parents are expected to X, Y and Z!” To make it a gender thing (except in cases where a man has actively fought for custody and been unfairly denied) is inaccurate, smacks of whining, and is never going to be sympathetic because people are generally not excited about supporting people’s rights to walk out on their children. Secondly, stop using the “what if she steals my sperm from a discarded condom” or “what if she pokes holes in the condom” scenario. That’s fully preventable. Women know that they need to take full responsibility for their birth control if they do not want to have babies, and men are perfectly capable of doing the same. Anyway, as a raving feminist, I firmly believe that men are our natural allies, and our full partner in the search for equality. But as long as "men’s rights’ is a cover for complaining about supporting your kids, I’m not going to be sympathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/54 "2013-04-07T14:22:33Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > It is not. We don’t hate feminists, we do wish feminists would stop trying to disrupt us from meeting and discussing men’s issues though. It’s the feminists that are harrasing MRAs, and not the other way around. It’s both IMHO. It’s just _politically acceptable_ to point out when MRAs do it, but not when feminists do it. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/55 "2013-04-07T14:23:01Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > No they don’t. Wanting has nothing to do with it. People who do show respect toward others are more likely to receive respect. I don’t respect the Men’s Movement, and I don’t care if they respect me. I’m more likely to respect someone who has self respect, and **guys who have dipshit gripes about discrimination because they aren’t getting laid have no self respect**. That old bullshit line didn’t take long to make it’s appearance, first page. Bravo ! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/56 "2013-04-07T14:26:50Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > That old bullshit line didn’t take long to make it’s appearance, first page. Bravo ! It’s standard in discussions involving gender relations. Women get sexually insulted by being called sluts and whores, men get sexually insulted by being accused of impotence or the inability to attract a woman. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/57 "2013-04-07T14:50:25Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s standard in discussions involving gender relations. Women get sexually insulted by being called sluts and whores, men get sexually insulted by being accused of impotence or the inability to attract a woman. Women who whine like the OP are sluts and whores. See, I don’t discriminate. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/58 "2013-04-07T15:05:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I concur that the Men’s Rights Movement may have a big future. > > Because whining about how your life is unfair will never go out of style. That is how every human rights movement is born. If people did not complain we would not need democracy. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/59 "2013-04-07T15:09:37Z")
You don’t seem to understand the difference between whining and complaining. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049/60 "2013-04-07T15:12:27Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Feminism and men’s rights should be natural allies. All unfairness is a part of a system, and any system affects all of it’s components. To give an example, male stereotypes are just as harmful as female ones, and are also an integral part of the negative female ones. You can’t have equality for women without having equality for men. > > That said, men’s rights is never going to be taken seriously until the get a few things under control. > > Number one is that unfairness in how custody is awarded is a valid issue. While it is not as bad as many portray it (joint custody is routine in most places, and men can and do get primary custody) it’s still very unfair and there are some genuinely disturbing cases. > > Anyway, as a raving feminist, I firmly believe that men are our natural allies, and our full partner in the search for equality. But as long as "men’s rights’ is a cover for complaining about supporting your kids, I’m not going to be sympathetic. Thank you very much for discussing our issues without personal attacks. Definitely the movement is only preliminary and many things need to be fixed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-movement-may-have-a-big-future/655049.md?page=4)