# Men's Rights: Why not get rid of Selective Service? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2011, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056 "2011-01-18T07:14:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/1 "2011-01-18T07:14:15Z")
What use do military commanders have anymore with selective service? What use do draftees serve in the modern military? In effect the Government tells men what to do with their bodies - by reserving the right to hijack them into war, forcibly if necessary. But women, on the other hand, have no such problems. Even funnier is the fact that women serve on draft boards, and if the draft is ever re-activated they will condemn countless men to die while they themselves are safe. I for one would never vote for the draft to include women - I’d vote to end selective service and ban conscription via a Constitutional amendment. How would that harm America? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/2 "2011-01-18T07:20:33Z")
Selective Service ended in 1973. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/3 "2011-01-18T07:24:29Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > I for one would never vote for the draft to include women - I’d vote to end selective service and ban conscription via a Constitutional amendment. > > How would that harm America? Well, the next time America faces a real existential threat which requires a few million extra soldiers, there’d be no mechanism of drafting them. You realize that there are currently no draftees in the military, right? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/4 "2011-01-18T07:27:29Z")
Males of suitable age are required to register for the draft in the event one becomes necessary. This is a reasonable step to take, as we have the logistics in place to start a draft if circumstances ever get dire enough to do so. Dismantling such preparations would harm the country by delaying the availability of drafted troops in an emergency, plus the added costs of shutting down existing systems and then re-inventing the wheel in an emergency. Banning a draft by constitutional amendment is so stupid that the concept does not even merit discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/5 "2011-01-18T07:38:05Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Selective Service ended in 1973. What’s [this](http://www.sss.gov/default.htm) then? And why did I have to register in 1991 when I turned 18? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/6 "2011-01-18T08:12:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Selective Service ended in 1973. The draft ended in 1973. Selective Service ended in 1975. It was reinstated in 1980. There’s no draft, but at 18, all men have to register for Selective Service, so if the draft ever is reinstated… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/7 "2011-01-18T08:33:39Z")
Females are subject to conscription. The Selective Service has contingency plans for a draft of medical personnel. Registration is a function of medical licensing - Congress can ask for the license lists when a draft is authorized. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/8 "2011-01-18T09:45:17Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > Well, the next time America faces a real existential threat which requires a few million extra soldiers, there’d be no mechanism of drafting them. If you can’t convince people to fight for you without resorting to conscription (a practice I feel is a step away from outright slavery), perhaps you deserve to lose. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/9 "2011-01-18T09:48:06Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Males of suitable age are required to register for the draft in the event one becomes necessary. This is a reasonable step to take, as we have the logistics in place to start a draft if circumstances ever get dire enough to do so. What exactly does “registering for the draft” do, in terms of logistics, that couldn’t simply be covered by pulling social security numbers out af a hat? (a big hat, obviously…) ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/10 "2011-01-18T11:25:25Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > If you can’t convince people to fight for you without resorting to conscription (a practice I feel is a step away from outright slavery), perhaps you deserve to lose. Even if you’re fighting a country like China that simply forces everyone their citizens to fight? High ideals are admirable but in the real-world defending those ideals can sometimes only be done by violating them yourself. It’s not something that should ever be done lightly, but if you never do it then those ideals simply won’t survive. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/11 "2011-01-18T12:12:12Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Females are subject to conscription. Under what law, exactly? > [@](#): > > The Selective Service has contingency plans for a draft of medical personnel. Registration is a function of medical licensing - Congress can ask for the license lists when a draft is authorized. And where does this include drafting women if war happens? ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/12 "2011-01-18T12:23:21Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Banning a draft by constitutional amendment is so stupid that the concept does not even merit discussion. So, you’re calling the following countries stupid? After all, they have no draft, or (from what it appears) any selective service-equivalent, either,p and some of them have even _abolished_ conscription altogether: > **[Conscription](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription#Countries_with_and_without_mandatory_military_service)** > > Conscription, also known as the draft in American English, is the practice in which the compulsory enlistment in a national service, mainly a military service, is enforced by law. Conscription dates back to antiquity and it continues in some countries to the present day under various names. The modern system of near-universal national conscription for young men dates to the French Revolution in the 1790s, where it became the basis of a very large and powerful military. Most European nations la Co... United Kingdom Spain Saudi Arabia New Zealand Japan India Australia Belgium and, it appears, France is on that list, too. ---
**Author:** ![jonesj2205](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jonesj2205](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonesj2205)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/13 "2011-01-18T12:43:42Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > If you can’t convince people to fight for you without resorting to conscription (a practice I feel is a step away from outright slavery), perhaps you deserve to lose. So perhaps the United States didn’t deserve to be on the winning side in World War I or II? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/14 "2011-01-18T12:49:40Z")
> [@jonesj2205](#): > > So perhaps the United States didn’t deserve to be on the winning side in World War I or II? That depends. Would we have had enough volunteers without the draft? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/15 "2011-01-18T13:04:30Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > What use do military commanders have anymore with selective service? What use do draftees serve in the modern military? None. It’s not a priority but there’s no reason not to ban it. Every time a draft rumor starts floating around, the military says it doesn’t want draftees because they don’t want to be there, which makes them harder to train than volunteers. I’m not sure how the education and skills of the general public compares to people who volunteer for the military, but that might be an issue, too. Framing this as a “men’s rights” issue is dumb, though. If you think it’s a men’s rights issue, then having women register would be an acceptable solution. On the other hand if you think a draft or mandatory military service is extremely close to enforced servitude (and I do), then the solution is to get rid of it, not complain that it’s unfair to men that women don’t have to do it, too. ---
**Author:** ![jonesj2205](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jonesj2205](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonesj2205)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/16 "2011-01-18T13:27:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That depends. Would we have had enough volunteers without the draft? I’m not an expert, but I’d say the fact that in World War I 72% of the Armed Forces were conscripted and in World War II 63% that it’s unlikely there would have been enough volunteers. The draft didn’t bar men from volunteering, so assuming all those personnel were required to fight the war, then a draft was required. And it wasn’t like it was just the United State. Britain went from an all-volunteer army to a largely conscripted army as well. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/17 "2011-01-18T13:39:52Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > So, you’re calling the following countries stupid? After all, they have no draft, or (from what it appears) any selective service-equivalent, either,p and some of them have even _abolished_ conscription altogether: > > [Conscription - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription#Countries_with_and_without_mandatory_military_service) > > United Kingdom > Spain > Saudi Arabia > New Zealand > Japan > India > Australia > Belgium > > and, it appears, France is on that list, too. In the UK - and I guess the the other parliamentary democracies - we do not have conscription these days but there is no constitutional bar to reintroducing it if needed. As **jonesj2205** says, in WW1 Britain did not introduce conscription until the middle of the war and had several million volunteers in 1914-15. One of the troubles with this was that whole groups of friends signed up together, were formed into “Pals” battalions, fought together and in many cases died together wiping out whole communities. It also meant that men left vital jobs before other cover could be found which badly disrupted the economy. It was to avoid these sort of problems as well as a shortage of volunteers that the UK had conscription in place in 1939. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/18 "2011-01-18T14:23:40Z")
Ya know, I fully agree with the proposition that someday in the future, a draft could be needed because the shaving cream has hit the fan. I see nothing whatsoever wrong with the draft, but… The Selective Service System is kind of an antiquated system. There has got to be a better way of running a draft than having millions upon millions of men send in (or avoid sending in) registration cards to be filed (electronically or otherwise) in the long-shot chance that we are going to war with overwhelming numbers of Nazi Commies in the next 7 years. Now, in the big picture, the Selective Service System costs peanuts, about $25 million a year. But what the hell has it accomplished over the last thirty years, other than land a few male students in hot water for taking Federal college loans without signing this form, which really only states where they were living during their last year in high school? There has got to be some way to pool government databases – Social Security, tax returns, college loans, Medicaid, etc., not to mention state databases – to generate a list of men and women who could be called to Federal service if needed. It isn’t like people have to register for jury duty when we turn 18 or move, so clearly it can be done. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/19 "2011-01-18T14:29:18Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > If you can’t convince people to fight for you without resorting to conscription (a practice I feel is a step away from outright slavery), perhaps you deserve to lose. Meh. The OP asked how it would harm America, not whether America deserved to be harmed. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056/20 "2011-01-18T14:32:31Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > High ideals are admirable but in the real-world defending those ideals can sometimes only be done by violating them yourself. It’s not something that should ever be done lightly, but if you never do it then those ideals simply won’t survive. “We had to destroy the village in order to save it.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mens-rights-why-not-get-rid-of-selective-service/568056.md?page=2)