# Mensa? Seriously? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 17, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775 "2009-05-17T19:26:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/101 "2009-05-20T14:15:11Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > See, this to me is an example of the problem. Anyone outside Mensa who doesn’t think it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread is “exercising their [personal] insecurities,” whereas Mensa _actually_ is a “talent for learning, making abstract connections [and] see[ing] the big picture.” > > It overstates what it means to be in Mensa, IMO, and it overstates what it means if an outsider is dubious about Mensa. There’s an arrogance in both sides of it that IMO is a legitimate red flag for how a person might get along with others. You have extrapolated a great deal from a few examples of what might go wrong if an insecure person read the statement without a true understanding of what “high Intelligence Test Score” really indicates about a person. And yes, for most intelligence tests, it primarily indicates a high ability to make abstract connections. Most people who score high on IQ tests do, in fact, learn quickly. I’d be interested to hear your definition of intelligence. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/102 "2009-05-20T15:09:30Z")
At the end of the day I don’t think most Mensans are all that different from us regular folk. Well, that might not be true. It seems to me that the percentage of Mensans who are socially awkward is higher than that of the general population but I admit I could be suffering from selection bias. I know a few Mensan women who are uncomfortable about how huggy some of the male members get at their regional gatherings or other events. I think some of them even wear stickers to denote whether or not they’ll accept hugs. While I have generally found most Mensans to be able to converse about a wide variety of topics ranging from politics, to science, to arts, etc., I haven’t really noticed them to provide any great insights into those subjects. I don’t think they’re a bad bunch of people though. Several of my friends are Mensans and they’re nice people. I’m not a Mensan nor do I think I can qualify for it. I’m not really good at puzzles or taking test though I am a graduate student (history). I don’t have any problems keeping up with them in conversation, though, I will admit, my eyes glaze over when it comes to mathematics. Odesio ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/103 "2009-05-20T15:15:52Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Most Mensans, I think, or at least most Mensans who come to the meetings, are pretty much the same way. They can get along with non-Mensans, but they go to the meetings for stimulation that they don’t get elsewhere. How unfortunate for you if you truly know no intelligent people outside of Mensa, or if you view having applied for it as the sole criterion for who is highly intelligent and who isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/104 "2009-05-20T15:44:19Z")
> [@PatriotGrrrl](#): > > I would tend to reject a resume with Mensa membership (or an IQ score) on it. IME, truly intelligent people don’t feel the need to point it out, it’s just assumed. I think this is the important thing: you don’t need to join some club or take an IQ test. If you`re smart it will be pretty obvious in the job interview. If you join simply to have a social club, well, that’s your chosen way of meeting people. I can`t imagine that a group of people are necessarily going to be fun to socialize with just because they got a certain score on an “IQ” test. In fact, they could easily be quite unbearable. And IQ tests an be unreliable, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/105 "2009-05-20T16:03:17Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Those do sound fun. 🙂 But I have little confidence that a local meeting of my Mensa club would be nearly as interesting, and I think the topics at the national convention would be of interest to lots of people, so why the limit to the top 2% of intelligence? None of those topics look like they’d necessarily require vast resources of intelligence to grasp. Yes, and the topics are all over the place. When a convention wants to attract participants, it should revolve around a common theme. This list just seems like they desperately want to find any and every topic that could justify their status as Mensa members (“only we people in the highest 2% of intelligence could ever discuss these things”). ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/106 "2009-05-20T16:29:23Z")
So we have lots of punwork, obscure references and in jokes. Honestly, I get my fill of that from the snarkpit. I remember reading the local magazine when I was a member. I know I’ve told this before but there was an article that made me swear off the group and not renew. Members who had significant others who weren’t qualified to be members were asked to send in cute stories about how they couldn’t figure something out but their “non-M” SO did. It was all “Hahaha. My non-M wife figured out how to assemble our kid’s toy when it made all confused. Can you imagine that?” ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/107 "2009-05-20T20:54:11Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > How unfortunate for you if you truly know no intelligent people outside of Mensa, or if you view having applied for it as the sole criterion for who is highly intelligent and who isn’t. I don’t think that I said either of those things. What gave you this impression? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/108 "2009-05-20T21:03:47Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I don’t think that I said either of those things. What gave you this impression? That would be the thing you said that I quoted in my reply. To repeat: > [@](#): > > Most Mensans, I think, or at least most Mensans who come to the meetings, are pretty much the same way. They can get along with non-Mensans, but they go to the meetings for stimulation that they don’t get elsewhere. So, the part where you said that most Mensans can only get intellectual stimulation from other Mensans would be what gave me that impression. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/109 "2009-05-20T21:17:23Z")
The issue is quite simple: the impression, rightly or wrongly, conveyed by MENSA membership is that members seek respect for _being_ smart; employers by and large care less about what you _are_ and more for what you have _demonstrated the ability to do_. Bragging on _being smart_ in a resume isn’t a good idea, particularly in my line of work (I’m a lawyer) which is supposedly filled with people who are “smart”. Smart is common - hard working, dedicated and able to achieve good stuff is rarer. Plenty of smart slackers about. And that doesn’t even begin to address whether scoring highly on an IQ test really indicates you are “smart”. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/110 "2009-05-21T16:23:31Z")
My problem with the idea is that, when unable to find stimulating conversation, the conclusion the MENSA set seems to be reaching is not, “Perhaps I should look around for people with whom I have common interests,” but rather, “The problem with my inability to find stimulating conversation must be due to the fact that almost everyone else is just too stupid.” The idea that being smarter gives you something in common is laughable. I suppose, however, that willingness to join a group that excludes 98% of the population in order to find someone to talk with might give you something in common with the other members. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/111 "2009-05-21T16:26:20Z")
For what it’s worth, I’ve worked with a couple of guys that had Mensa stuff (they were members) in their cubicles. There were neither more nor less obnoxious than any of the other programmers I’ve worked with. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/112 "2009-05-21T18:01:12Z")
**mensa** ® _The Douchemaker!™_ ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/113 "2009-05-21T19:44:40Z")
Oh, and for anyone who believes that people who dislike Mensa are mostly sour-grapy, here’s some math to think about. The population of the United States is currently about 304,000,000. American Mensa has [“about 50,000” members](http://www.mensa.org/nationalinfo.php?country=48). This means that less than one percent of the “smartest” two percent of Americans have decided to join–over six million people right there who have reasons other than sour grapes for not joining Mensa. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/114 "2009-05-21T19:51:31Z")
Now I can’t wait to join and lord it over the rest of you sour grapists! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/115 "2009-05-21T19:51:39Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Oh, and for anyone who believes that people who dislike Mensa are mostly sour-grapy, here’s some math to think about. > > The population of the United States is currently about 304,000,000. American Mensa has [“about 50,000” members](http://www.mensa.org/nationalinfo.php?country=48). This means that less than one percent of the “smartest” two percent of Americans have decided to join–over six million people right there who have reasons other than sour grapes for not joining Mensa. Wait, could you explain it again? I’m not so good at that math stuff. Seriously, though…that’s a really interesting point. And it makes me wonder…is it really hard to find intelligent people to talk to without joining Mensa? Clearly, those people are out there, according to your statistic. Personally, I have a friend who is a nuclear physicist, a friend who is a neurosurgeon, a friend who graduated from Harvard Law…I can’t claim to be anywhere near them in terms of intelligence (don’t know how they put up with me…I must bore them to death!) but I didn’t look that hard for them. Certainly, I have friends who don’t rise to those standards, as well, but it hasn’t proved impossible to make friends with folks who are really, really smart. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/116 "2009-05-21T20:03:10Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Seriously, though…that’s a really interesting point. And it makes me wonder…is it really hard to find intelligent people to talk to without joining Mensa? Clearly, those people are out there, according to your statistic. Personally, I have a friend who is a nuclear physicist, a friend who is a neurosurgeon, a friend who graduated from Harvard Law…I can’t claim to be anywhere near them in terms of intelligence (don’t know how they put up with me…I must bore them to death!) but I didn’t look that hard for them. Certainly, I have friends who don’t rise to those standards, as well, but it hasn’t proved impossible to make friends with folks who are really, really smart. I think it may depend on where you live and work. In NJ I lived in a town near a lot of research centers. The dead end street I lived on had 14 houses and I think 5 Ph.Ds, one dentist, and lots of other advanced degrees. I didn’t need Mensa to talk to intelligent people. I could kind of see it for people who live in the boonies. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/117 "2009-05-21T20:19:47Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > And it makes me wonder…is it really hard to find intelligent people to talk to without joining Mensa? Not for me (granted, I do live in a fairly large city–Milwaukee, so it’s not New York but it’s not BFE). Some of these are people I met in the “obvious” places like the honors program at my university, but there are plenty of others, like my good friend and former roommate who despite having never finished high school is still one of the smartest people I know. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/118 "2009-05-21T20:25:45Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Not for me (granted, I do live in a fairly large city–Milwaukee, so it’s not New York but it’s not BFE). Some of these are people I met in the “obvious” places like the honors program at my university, but there are plenty of others, like my good friend and former roommate who despite having never finished high school is still one of the smartest people I know. You know, after I wrote that I thought maybe it sounded bad…I didn’t mean to imply that you have to be a nuclear physicist or a neurosurgeon or a Harvard lawyer to be smart, I just used those as examples I had that seemed like objective measures of smartness, vs. just saying, “well, my friends are smart!” As you say, some of the brightest people I know aren’t super well-educated, or they went into fields that aren’t as flashy. I agree with Voyager that well-educated people are easier to find in big cities, but education doesn’t = intelligence. You should be able to find “smart” people anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/119 "2009-05-21T20:29:44Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > You know, after I wrote that I thought maybe it sounded bad…I didn’t mean to imply that you have to be a nuclear physicist or a neurosurgeon or a Harvard lawyer to be smart, I just used those as examples I had that seemed like objective measures of smartness No worries–that’s exactly what I read into your post. I was just pointing out that I got a wide range of smart friends from a bunch of places that aren’t Mensa. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775/120 "2009-05-21T20:42:53Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > No worries–that’s exactly what I read into your post. I was just pointing out that I got a wide range of smart friends from a bunch of places that aren’t Mensa. That’s the thing…I guess I don’t understand the point of Mensa. My experience is that smart people tend to attract each other (who else wants them, really? ;)) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mensa-seriously/496775.md?page=7)