# Menswear: Dark dress shirts with dark suits - is it ever OK? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 12, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855 "2010-04-12T17:22:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/41 "2010-04-12T21:58:41Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > **Merneith** … isnt _Mad Men_ set in the 1960s? Yes. The difference in menswear between now and then is mostly in the details such as the cut of the lapels, shape of the pant leg, and so on. It wouldn’t be a hard act to follow. Tim Gunn almost always wears a white shirt, if you want a modern example. I think the solid tie & shirt look might be alright on a date, maybe, depending on where you go. But for work or formal events, the classics are classic for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/42 "2010-04-12T22:01:17Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Yes. The difference in menswear between now and then is mostly in the details such as the cut of the lapels, **shape of the pant leg** , and so on. It wouldn’t be a hard act to follow. Tim Gunn almost always wears a white shirt, if you want a modern example. Mad Men also gets the shape of the pant leg entirely incorrect, as I understand it. So it’s not like dressing like Don Draper is really the same as dressing like you’re from the 60s. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/43 "2010-04-12T22:29:35Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Tim Gunn almost always wears a white shirt, if you want a modern example. [This](http://iidastudents.wordpress.com/2009/03/05/illinois-state-brings-tim-gunn-to-campus/) [Tim](http://www.fabulousafter40.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/tim-gunn.jpg) [Gunn?](http://www.celebrityeverything.com/wp-content/uploads/tim_gunn1.jpg) [He mixes](http://images.buddytv.com/articles/Project_Runway/Images/tim-gunn-2.jpg) [it up.](http://www.popcultureshock.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/heidi-gunn.jpg) I’ll admit that he does wear white shirts in most of his pics that I can find via cusory Googling. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/44 "2010-04-12T22:30:42Z")
The comments in the thread and the poll results don’t match. There’s a lot of people out there that lie dark-on-dark, but are keeping mum. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/45 "2010-04-12T23:02:50Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Mad Men also gets the shape of the pant leg entirely incorrect, as I understand it. So it’s not like dressing like Don Draper is really the same as dressing like you’re from the 60s. Yeah. I was speaking figuratively. I don’t mean hijack his wardrobe next time it goes to the cleaners. > [@bordelond](#): > > I’ll admit that he does wear white shirts in most of his pics that I can find via cusory Googling. Yeah. Which is why I said he almost always wears white shirts. He usually does on the show, too. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/46 "2010-04-12T23:47:32Z")
I voted “Sometimes works, but it’s walking a high wire sans net”. I would never recommend this for a professional setting. Some men might be able to pull it off depending on where they work, but I’d advise against it. In a purely social situation it might be okay, but it’s a look that is very strongly associated with organized crime. So a man sporting this look runs a definite risk of looking like either a mobster or, worse still, like someone who’s _trying_ to look like a mobster. Anecdote: When I was working in Japan my fellow American coworker once came in wearing a black jacket, black shirt, and green tie. Our boss was rather distressed and started giving him a hard time about it, but was struggling to explain in English why she found this outfit so objectionable. I asked if she thought it was a _yakuza_ (Japanese mafia) look, but she said no, not exactly. After some more back and forth I realized that the word she was searching for was something like “gigolo”. I’m not sure if that’s better or worse than looking like the _yakuza_. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/47 "2010-04-13T00:03:21Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Mind you, I kind of like the look. I like the way Chuck Bass dresses, too. But most men can’t pull it off. Most men should ask themselves, "What would Don Draper wear?’ Eh… screw Don Draper. I tend to think “What would my grandfather wear?” He was a VP of a bank in Galveston, TX from way back, and had quite a few hand-tailored suits, and was generally a very dapper and well dressed fellow, if a bit conservatively. Basically the same look I go for in business attire- a well tailored, sharp, in fashion, but somewhat conservative look. Like I don’t have to impress anyone, basically. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/48 "2010-04-13T00:04:30Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > The comments in the thread and the poll results don’t match. There’s a lot of people out there that lie dark-on-dark, but are keeping mum. For what it’s worth, I voted “it depends”. ---
**Author:** ![lshaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e36b37/32.png) [@lshaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lshaw)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/49 "2010-04-13T00:25:05Z")
It depends. Can it look fashionable and sharp? Yes, the key is how you wear it - look at the way numerous men wear it on the red carpet and look great doing so. I googled Brad Pitt and saw a few pictures where I think he looks pretty good with it. And I also came up with a picture of Steve Wozniak wearing dark-on-dark - he’s not exactly a fashionable guy, but he is a prominent executive. I like how it’s done in the second picture you posted. However, I am not a big fan of how it’s done in the first and third examples. It also depends on who is wearing it and for what. It can look good, but it may not be appropriate for certain situations with strict dress code. And some people probably just can’t pull it off - if you’ve got an overblown orange faux tan, miles of tacky jewelry, and frosted hair with enough hair gel to kill a cat, you would make even a traditional suit look ostentatious. ---
**Author:** ![Caveat\_lector\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@Caveat\_lector\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caveat_lector_1)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/50 "2010-04-13T01:15:53Z")
I think it can be done. I wear my black suit with a wine-ish red shirt and get complements. So it works on me at least. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/51 "2010-04-13T02:11:51Z")
> [@Caveat\_lector\_1](#): > > I think it can be done. I wear my black suit with a wine-ish red shirt and get complements. So it works on me at least. This is exactly the combination I thought of when I voted that it could be a solid choice 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![statsman1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/52 "2010-04-13T02:34:11Z")
Goddamn. All these fashion rules make my head spin. I looked at the pics in the OP. They all look great to me. I love that look, personally. And clearly, I’m not the only one. I’m actually surprised that we have so many fashionistas here. I thought the only people who got the vapors over whether someone wears a fucking dark shirt with a fucking dark suit were on Bravo. Jesus fucking christ. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/53 "2010-04-13T02:45:15Z")
I voted that it’s a solid choice. [But then, I might be biased.](http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=54839953&albumID=2999285&imageID=59697413) ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/54 "2010-04-13T13:28:02Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > shit. Isn’t it though? Dark shirt/dark jacket can seem a bit sombre - I prefer the dark shirt/lighter jacket, dated look: [http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lLHM-wPecz0/0.jpg](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lLHM-wPecz0/0.jpg) . ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/55 "2010-04-13T13:32:27Z")
> [@statsman1982](#): > > Goddamn. All these fashion rules make my head spin. > > I looked at the pics in the OP. They all look great to me. I love that look, personally. And clearly, I’m not the only one. > > I’m actually surprised that we have so many fashionistas here. I thought the only people who got the vapors over whether someone wears a fucking dark shirt with a fucking dark suit were on Bravo. > > Jesus fucking christ. You can always pick up some taste and style of your own. This is the best way to avoid all the fashion rules. Unless you make your living as a fashionista, style trumps fashion every time. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/56 "2010-04-13T14:00:56Z")
> [@Caveat\_lector\_1](#): > > I think it can be done. I wear my black suit with a wine-ish red shirt and get complements. So it works on me at least. Exact same story here. And I do get sincere compliments. Not fawning and swooning … just a few compliments every time I wear the black-&-red to an event. Then I mention it at work (business casual office, recall), or mention it online, and I get dozens of negative comments :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/57 "2010-04-13T14:03:42Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Exact same story here. And I do get sincere compliments. Not fawning and swooning … just a few compliments every time I wear the black-&-red to an event. > > Then I mention it at work (business casual office, recall), or mention it online, and I get dozens of negative comments :shrug: This is one problem with fashion as such. Some clothes look fine but are unfashionable because they don’t _sound_ good. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/58 "2010-04-13T15:20:03Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > This is one problem with fashion as such. Some clothes look fine but are unfashionable because they don’t _sound_ good. I bet that has a lot of truth to it. For instance, I’m presonally picky about any red I wear – T-shirt, polo, dress shirt, whatever. It’s gotta be a red that trends toward burgundy/wine (even if just a tad), and definitely NOT one that looks like a ripe-tomato color (trends orange or salmon). Given that, when I hear “red shirt”, there’s a subtle difference in my mind between “amazing” and “wretched”. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/59 "2010-04-14T13:44:11Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > [QUOTE=bordelond] > > I’ll admit that he does wear white shirts in most of his pics that I can find via cusory Googling. Yeah. Which is why I said he almost always wears white shirts. He usually does on the show, too. [/QUOTE] OK, but if Tim Gunn sees fit to break the “rule” at times – even if it’s just one time in twenty – then why shouldn’t other men? … EDIT: Interestingly, the voting right now is exactly 50-50. 39 like the look a good bit (top two poll options). 39 dislike or detest the look (bottom three options). The remaining 27 voted “50-50”. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855/60 "2010-04-14T14:46:13Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Exact same story here. And I do get sincere compliments. Not fawning and swooning … just a few compliments every time I wear the black-&-red to an event. > > Then I mention it at work (business casual office, recall), or mention it online, and I get dozens of negative comments :shrug: probably because you associate with people who have no taste 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menswear-dark-dress-shirts-with-dark-suits-is-it-ever-ok/535855.md?page=4)