# Mental health hold on Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 27, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461 "2019-12-27T18:29:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/61 "2019-12-28T18:13:44Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Hard disagree, she’s not right about his mind and psyche. Narcissism and grandiosity may well be dangerous in the powerful, and Trump may well be unfit, but the kind of holds discussed in that opinion piece apply to people who are imminently, creditably homicidal, suicidal or gravely disabled, Trump is not. I don’t know what he says in his bedroom, but I’m highly skeptical that Lee has special knowledge, if she did, she’d be ethically bound to make the call to emergency services herself. She is not claiming special knowledge, just expertise. How do you place your insights above hers? Are you in the field? I think she is trying to bring something home that we are missing in our media coverage and internet yakking. Certainly what she is saying is not a public failure or disservice, like say for instance, the medias confusion at covering tirnp, a maze which we are still in and wondering how to get the fuck out of. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/62 "2019-12-28T18:24:06Z")
Let me correct your proposals: A body of expert, impartial, unassailable psychological experts is recognized. They administer ink blot tests to every elected official. Based on their expert, objective, state of the art assessment of the officials’ inkblot tests, each one is allowed to either see to his or her elected duties, on probation, under the benevolent, expert monitoring of the psychological experts; or if they have a mental health issue revealed by the inkblot test, or later flagged under the vigilant monitoring, they are relieved of their duties, to undergo psychiatric treatment, until such time they are deemed mentally fit to carry out the duties originally assigned by the voters. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/63 "2019-12-28T18:45:54Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Let me correct your proposals: > A body of expert, impartial, unassailable psychological experts is recognized. They administer ink blot tests to every elected official. Based on their expert, objective, state of the art assessment of the officials’ inkblot tests, each one is allowed to either see to his or her elected duties, on probation, under the benevolent, expert monitoring of the psychological experts; or if they have a mental health issue revealed by the inkblot test, or later flagged under the vigilant monitoring, they are relieved of their duties, to undergo psychiatric treatment, until such time they are deemed mentally fit to carry out the duties originally assigned by the voters. So let me get this straight…: We suspect the head of the organization is mentally unfit to perform his duties competently. We therefore demand that he AND every single senior leader in the organization be subjected to the same evaluation. Despite the fact that few if any of them have shown similar signs of mental incompetence, or serve at a sufficiently high level to warrant similar concern. This smacks of the continued efforts to normalize Trump’s behavior by projecting and distracting the focus from the epicenter of the actual problem. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/64 "2019-12-28T18:55:20Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > As far as I can tell, it’s not “such other body”; it’s to be set in motion by the VP and members of that other body. If the VP isn’t on board at the start, then as far as I can tell there _is_ no start. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > So let me get this straight…: > > We suspect the head of the organization is mentally unfit to perform his duties competently. We therefore demand that he AND every single senior leader in the organization be subjected to the same evaluation. Despite the fact that few if any of them have shown similar signs of mental incompetence, or serve at a sufficiently high level to warrant similar concern. > > This smacks of the continued efforts to normalize Trump’s behavior by projecting and distracting the focus from the epicenter of the actual problem. Good point. What a waste of resources. The evaluation mechanism is no doubt infallable, but think of the cost. We will let the state propaganda arm, I mean mainstream media, decide which elected officials need scrutiny, to narrow down the scope and reduce costs. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/65 "2019-12-28T19:13:58Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > Good point. What a waste of resources. The evaluation mechanism is no doubt infallable, but think of the cost. We will let the state propaganda arm, I mean mainstream media, decide which elected officials need scrutiny, to narrow down the scope and reduce costs. Let me get break it down to simpler terms. You have a flat on you left front tire. Do you: A) Fix/replace the left front tire. B) Insist that all tires be fixed/replaced. C) Keep driving with the flat to avoid wasting valuable resources. D) Blame the Waze app for the cost and inconvenience. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/66 "2019-12-28T20:09:41Z")
Back in the day was a phrase, “Closing the barn door after the horse has bolted,” meaning to apply a fix too late. Evaluating politicians’ mental states AFTER they take office is too late. I doubt citizens could persuade legislators to enact candidate screening requirements that cover themselves too, so voter referendums in the states are needed. Running for state or federal office? Pass a psych review - weed out the sociopaths - but then, who’s left? This POTUS is not going to be removed for mental instability. It’s too late for that. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/67 "2019-12-28T20:54:00Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > She is not his coworker? Huh? > > So turnp hasn’t done an insanely evil act on film yet, by your opinion? Great. So he hasn’t gone down and actually marched with the blood and soil crowd? Wonderful. Thanks for your insight. Are you filling up column inches too or are you special? She is, absolutely, not his co-worker. She’s a member of a co-equal branch of government. Nothing more. To think otherwise is to misunderstand the separate but equal branches of government. As for Trump being evil? I have no doubt you’re correct. But being evil is not an incapacity. Trump is placed in his position by something two hundred plus years of history respects more than anything else: a free election. Disagreeing with that result also isn’t an incapacity. And in terms of her expertise? I’m sure she’s very knowledgeable in her field. But that field isn’t government nor constitutional law. It’s a pointless argument made by an angry person. Sound and fury, signifying nothing. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/68 "2019-12-28T21:01:22Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > She is not claiming special knowledge, just expertise. How do you place your insights above hers? Are you in the field? I’m an emergency room nurse, I routinely deal with involuntary mental health holds, I believe we had 4 on the last shift I worked. I know little about the 25th amendment, but when Lee says > [@](#): > > Anyone can call 911 to report someone who seems dangerous, and family members are the most typical ones to do so. But so can coworkers, and even passersby on the street. she’s talking about something I work with often. Something that, in my professional opinion, based on what I’ve seen and read, doesn’t apply to Trump. Expertise notwithstanding, since she ‘translates’ Trumps’ tweets on her own twitter feed as a ‘public service’, I consider her professional objectivity forfeit until proven otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/69 "2019-12-28T22:25:26Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > I’m an emergency room nurse, I routinely deal with involuntary mental health holds, I believe we had 4 on the last shift I worked. > > I know little about the 25th amendment, but when Lee says > > she’s talking about something I work with often. Something that, in my professional opinion, based on what I’ve seen and read, doesn’t apply to Trump. > > Expertise notwithstanding, since she ‘translates’ Trumps’ tweets on her own twitter feed as a ‘public service’, I consider her professional objectivity forfeit until proven otherwise. Why would you have a problem with that? So you’re waiting for the public warning of your dreams, “Warning Right”? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/70 "2019-12-28T22:29:40Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > She is, absolutely, not his co-worker. She’s a member of a co-equal branch of government. Nothing more. To think otherwise is to misunderstand the separate but equal branches of government. > > As for Trump being evil? I have no doubt you’re correct. But being evil is not an incapacity. Trump is placed in his position by something two hundred plus years of history respects more than anything else: a free election. Disagreeing with that result also isn’t an incapacity. > > And in terms of her expertise? I’m sure she’s very knowledgeable in her field. But that field isn’t government nor constitutional law. It’s a pointless argument made by an angry person. Sound and fury, signifying nothing. Have you ever worked for an organization, one that had an HR dept? When you are on your job there are coworkers, customers, maybe some other words. But you can’t claim anyone you interact with professionally is not a coworker for the purposes of labor laws. Why is it significant to you? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/71 "2019-12-28T22:35:00Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > Back in the day was a phrase, “Closing the barn door after the horse has bolted,” meaning to apply a fix too late. Evaluating politicians’ mental states AFTER they take office is too late. I doubt citizens could persuade legislators to enact candidate screening requirements that cover themselves too, so voter referendums in the states are needed. Running for state or federal office? Pass a psych review - weed out the sociopaths - but then, who’s left? > > This POTUS is not going to be removed for mental instability. It’s too late for that. Who’s left indeed. The fact that he might have made it out of the woods and may stay continent for the next year is not a reason to avoid creating the future for trornp wherein he leaves office as someone who needed to defend his sanity. He needs to because we have lived with the insanity long enough. People want to see this as static, but I just can’t see the world that way. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/72 "2019-12-28T22:35:17Z")
Doesn’t Trump technically work for Pelosi, that is to say, doesn’t he work to fulfill the directives of and serve at the pleasure of the organization (congress) of which Pelosi is arguably the most powerful member? She should be drawing up his pink slip even now. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/73 "2019-12-28T22:44:17Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > She is, absolutely, not his co-worker. She’s a member of a co-equal branch of government. Nothing more. To think otherwise is to misunderstand the separate but equal branches of government. > > As for Trump being evil? I have no doubt you’re correct. But being evil is not an incapacity. Trump is placed in his position by something two hundred plus years of history respects more than anything else: a free election. Disagreeing with that result also isn’t an incapacity. > > And in terms of her expertise? I’m sure she’s very knowledgeable in her field. But that field isn’t government nor constitutional law. It’s a pointless argument made by an angry person. Sound and fury, signifying nothing. I’m sorry to go back to this but “It’s a pointless argument made by an angry person. Sound and fury, signifying nothing.” is really pretty outrageous in the context of such a professional warning. I didn’t notice that she was angry at all. Are you? Are you an anti-trumper defending democracy by saying this? Fake news from the left now everybodys doing it…? I don’t get the point of slagging on the warning. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/74 "2019-12-28T23:01:27Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I’m sorry to go back to this but “It’s a pointless argument made by an angry person. Sound and fury, signifying nothing.” is really pretty outrageous in the context of such a professional warning. I didn’t notice that she was angry at all. Are you? > > Are you an anti-trumper defending democracy by saying this? Fake news from the left now everybodys doing it…? I don’t get the point of slagging on the warning. It is a canon of the psychiatric profession not to diagnose anyone they have not personally examined. She is in violation of her ethics. And politically speaking, she’s far crazier than Trump. I told you before that expecting Trump to be committed involuntarily was wishful thinking. That obviously wasn’t strong enough. It’s delusional thinking. You’re also coming off crazier than Trump. You’re the one who’s making the anti-Trump movement look deranged. The left is supposed to be the bastion as reality and real-world thinking. As of this moment, you’re part of the far right. Hope you like the food there. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/75 "2019-12-28T23:30:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t like Trump as a person. I feel he’s not very smart and has a lot of personality problems. I feel he’s an incompetent President. And I think he’s committed several serious crimes. > > But I don’t feel he is physically or mentally incapacitated. Congress should not be seeking to invoke the 25th Amendment. Serious question… if he were incapacitated, how would we know? I mean, obviously he doesn’t appear in public with food in his pockets or wearing his underwear outside of his pants. But on the other hand, he often talks like that kind of person, and he’s clearly surrounded himself with people who would prevent us from seeing him like that. So how/when do we know when he’s lost his marbles? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/76 "2019-12-28T23:48:49Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It is a canon of the psychiatric profession not to diagnose anyone they have not personally examined. She is in violation of her ethics. And politically speaking, she’s far crazier than Trump. > > I told you before that expecting Trump to be committed involuntarily was wishful thinking. That obviously wasn’t strong enough. It’s delusional thinking. You’re also coming off crazier than Trump. You’re the one who’s making the anti-Trump movement look deranged. The left is supposed to be the bastion as reality and real-world thinking. As of this moment, you’re part of the far right. Hope you like the food there. Cite that she violated her ethics. The rest: “_ **I told you before** _ that expecting Trump to be committed involuntarily was wishful thinking. That obviously wasn’t strong enough. It’s delusional thinking. You’re also coming off crazier than Trump. You’re the one who’s making the anti-Trump movement look deranged. The left is supposed to be the bastion as reality and real-world thinking. As of this moment, you’re part of the far right. Hope you like the food there.” Have fun in the straw. Not one meaningful syllable. “I told you before” is just not a good start either. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/77 "2019-12-28T23:50:34Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Serious question… if he were incapacitated, how would we know? I mean, obviously he doesn’t appear in public with food in his pockets or wearing his underwear outside of his pants. But on the other hand, he often talks like that kind of person, and he’s clearly surrounded himself with people who would prevent us from seeing him like that. > > So how/when do we know when he’s lost his marbles? They would hide him as much as possible. And the dems should be trying to pry him out of that hiding every minute. Hopefully they don’t read this thread and get discouraged. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2019, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/78 "2019-12-29T00:02:08Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Why would you have a problem with that? > > So you’re waiting for the public warning of your dreams, “Warning Right”? What, I don’t understand what you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![Kelby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a587f6/32.png) [@Kelby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelby)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2019, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/79 "2019-12-29T00:14:10Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Serious question… if he were incapacitated, how would we know? I mean, obviously he doesn’t appear in public with food in his pockets or wearing his underwear outside of his pants. But on the other hand, he often talks like that kind of person, and he’s clearly surrounded himself with people who would prevent us from seeing him like that. > > So how/when do we know when he’s lost his marbles? Exactly what I was coming to say. I’m trying to imagine a scenario now, where Trump says or does something that would cause the VP and cabinet officials to pursue the 25th. I can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461/80 "2019-12-29T00:41:49Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Have you ever worked for an organization, one that had an HR dept? > > When you are on your job there are coworkers, customers, maybe some other words. But you can’t claim anyone you interact with professionally is not a coworker for the purposes of labor laws. Trump and Pelosi are not employees. They are both office-holders, holding offices created by the Constitution itself: Pelosi by Article I, Trump by Article II. Labour laws do not apply to them and they are not co-workers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-health-hold-on-trump/845461.md?page=5)