# Mental illness is exaggerated **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 9, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522 "2013-06-09T03:18:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/301 "2013-06-19T16:48:13Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > What a bizarre interpretation of Freud. The idea that “love heals” is so at odds with his theories on insight and catharsis that I’m willing to bet he never said anything of the sort. The only available cite for the quote is [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-427201.html)- **lekatt** on this same message board back in 2007, and he didn’t provide a cite back then, either. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/302 "2013-06-19T16:53:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The only available cite for the quote is [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-427201.html)- **lekatt** on this same message board back in 2007, and he didn’t provide a cite back then, either. I saw that, as well as two related cites, one from lekatt and one from aleroy, who is also lekatt, iirc. One of the quotes is actually expanded to include the “sometimes a cigar is just a cigar” bit, which is apocryphal and not likely something Freud actually ever said either. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/303 "2013-06-19T17:15:09Z")
**Melbourne** , could you please define the term ‘psychotic’? **Matt** , is any of your ignorance being fought successfully? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/304 "2013-06-19T18:49:20Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > What a bizarre interpretation of Freud. The idea that “love heals” is so at odds with his theories on insight and catharsis that I’m willing to bet he never said anything of the sort. I can assure you he did say that in an interview with a newspaper reporter and was printed in said paper. Unfortunately I have forgotten the name of the newspaper. Freud was a kind man, he understood what really healed his patients was his empathy and interest in seeing them improve. He was totally misrepresented by his detractors as many famous people are, but he left us a great legacy for those who could understand it. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/305 "2013-06-19T18:55:57Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I saw that, as well as two related cites, one from lekatt and one from aleroy, who is also lekatt, iirc. > > One of the quotes is actually expanded to include the “sometimes a cigar is just a cigar” bit, which is apocryphal and not likely something Freud actually ever said either. Freud did say “sometimes a cigar is just a cigar”. It was a reply to a man who asked him about his symbolism of “a cigar is a phallic symbol.” At the time Freud was chewing on a cigar. If all you know about Freud was from the history books then you don’t know about him. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/306 "2013-06-19T18:55:59Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I can assure you he did say that in an interview with a newspaper reporter and was printed in said paper. Unfortunately I have forgotten the name of the newspaper. Freud was a kind man, he understood what really healed his patients was his empathy and interest in seeing them improve. He was totally misrepresented by his detractors as many famous people are, but he left us a great legacy for those who could understand it. You seem to be confusing Freud for Carl Rogers. What you’re writing is nonsense. Making the unconscious conscious, or developing insight, is not dependent on the empathy of the therapist. The therapist isn’t supposed to be empathetic, they’re supposed to be a blank slate so that the patient can project unconscious material onto them. You simply have no idea what you’re talking about, and you’re quote from Freud is bullshit. ETA: please provide a cite that directly quotes Freud on the cigar thing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/307 "2013-06-19T18:58:52Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I can assure you he did say that in an interview with a newspaper reporter and was printed in said paper. Unfortunately I have forgotten the name of the newspaper. Freud was a kind man, he understood what really healed his patients was his empathy and interest in seeing them improve. He was totally misrepresented by his detractors as many famous people are, but he left us a great legacy for those who could understand it. Since I doubt very much you were reading old newspapers from the turn of the century and just happened on the quote, could you tell us what _your_ source for the quote is? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/308 "2013-06-19T19:01:01Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I can assure you he did say that in an interview with a newspaper reporter and was printed in said paper. [No, he didn’t. The quote is not real.](http://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/08/12/just-a-cigar/) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/309 "2013-06-19T19:03:14Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Freud did say “sometimes a cigar is just a cigar”. It was a reply to a man who asked him about his symbolism of “a cigar is a phallic symbol.” At the time Freud was chewing on a cigar. If all you know about Freud was from the history books then you don’t know about him. Not all of us have the ability to talk to dead people at a moment’s notice, we have to rely on mundane things like “_research_” to find out things. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/310 "2013-06-19T19:09:01Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You seem to be confusing Freud for Carl Rogers. What you’re writing is nonsense. > > Making the unconscious conscious, or developing insight, is not dependent on the empathy of the therapist. The therapist isn’t supposed to be empathetic, they’re supposed to be a blank slate so that the patient can project unconscious material onto them. > > You simply have no idea what you’re talking about, and you’re quote from Freud is bullshit. > > ETA: please provide a cite that directly quotes Freud on the cigar thing. I don’t know Carl Rogers. If you have described what modern therapist are taught, then it is understandable why they achieve no good results. What I said about Freud was accurate to the letter. A good therapist must be empathic and non-judgmental. His success will depend on the trust given by the patient. You can and do project unconscious material on everyone you meet. But you usually mistake it as the other persons material. It takes a special person to be a good therapist. They can not be trained. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/311 "2013-06-19T19:11:39Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > What I said about Freud was accurate to the letter. Except for the quote being fictional. > [@](#): > > It takes a special person to be a good therapist. They can not be trained. That’ll be news to the American Psychiatric Association. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/312 "2013-06-19T19:23:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Since I doubt very much you were reading old newspapers from the turn of the century and just happened on the quote, could you tell us what _your_ source for the quote is? Most people choose to believe what they want. When I was reading Freud many years ago I went to the used book stores to find his books. On buying his book “Totem and Taboo” I found inside the book a newspaper, old and yellowed, with an interview of Freud. It was in this newspaper I read the quotes I posted here. I may still have it, but I have thousands of books and don’t intend to look for it. I really don’t care whether you believe me or not, it is only necessary that I know it is truth. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/313 "2013-06-19T19:25:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [No, he didn’t. The quote is not real.](http://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/08/12/just-a-cigar/) Because they didn’t find it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. If you look at the circumstances it is apparent. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/314 "2013-06-19T19:27:33Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Because they didn’t find it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. > > If you look at the circumstances it is apparent. Did reality run over your dog when you were a kid? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/315 "2013-06-19T19:30:56Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > When I was reading Freud many years ago I went to the used book stores to find his books. On buying his book “Totem and Taboo” I found inside the book a newspaper, old and yellowed, with an interview of Freud. It was in this newspaper I read the quotes I posted here. No, you didn’t. You may well have read an interview with Freud, or you may have read a story about Freud, or perhaps even an imagined interview with Freud. You did not read an interview where Freud said “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar” because there is no evidence he ever said it. Not that it seems to matter at this point, since **matt357** has given up on this thread as far as I can tell. > [@lekatt](#): > > Because they didn’t find it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. The fact that nobody has ever found it is pretty good evidence. > [@](#): > > If you look at the circumstances it is apparent. I don’t know what this is supposed to mean, but if you mean it’s obvious that Freud said it, you’re wrong. And it’s not obvious that it’s something he \*would - have said, since the whole point of the quote is that it’s not what you would expect Freud to say. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/316 "2013-06-19T19:36:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, you didn’t. You may well have read an interview with Freud, or you may have read a story about Freud, or perhaps even an imagined interview with Freud. You did not read an interview where Freud said “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar” because there is no evidence he ever said it. Not that it seems to matter at this point, since **matt357** has given up on this thread as far as I can tell. The thing that amazes me most about this board is the number of posters willing to pass judgement on things they have no experience with and can not possible know anything about. Yet they say they are right by saying they are right. There must be a God. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/317 "2013-06-19T19:42:24Z")
While we’re talking about Sigmund [the Master Speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2468/was-sigmund-freud-a-quack). **Lekatt** I ask this in complete seriousness- why exactly did you read all of Freud’s books? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/318 "2013-06-19T19:44:31Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The thing that amazes me most about this board is the number of posters willing to pass judgement on things they have no experience with and can not possible know anything about. Yet they say they are right by saying they are right. There must be a God. The black hole of Galaxy NGC 4889 calling the kettle black. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/319 "2013-06-19T19:49:08Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Because they didn’t find it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. > > If you look at the circumstances it is apparent. An just because I haven’t found evidence that you’re Charles Manson doesn’t mean you aren’t. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/320 "2013-06-19T20:30:12Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The thing that amazes me most about this board is the number of posters willing to pass judgement on things they have no experience with and can not possible know anything about. This is a big waste of time, but I do know something about it: I went and read a good and detailed summary of the history of the purported quotation and why its provenance is dubious. On the other hand you’re relying on your memory of something you think you read many years ago, and - here’s the important part - _nobody else ever seems to have read it_. The author of the piece I linked to did not find it, and as far as I can tell nobody else on the entire Internet has ever seen it because I could not find anyone who was able to say “Freud uttered this quote in an interview with this newspaper on this date.” Freud isn’t an obscure subject and the quote is very famous, so I think that if it were real, someone somewhere would be able to identify where it came from. They can’t. So if I have to choose between your memory and the work of people who researched this quote and who are knowledgeable and familiar with Freud’s work, it’s a very easy choice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522.md?page=17)