# Mental illness is exaggerated **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 9, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522 "2013-06-09T03:18:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/501 "2013-07-18T00:20:42Z")
Believe me, I have nothing but contempt for the “blame the victim” view of things. I know people who have had problems with alcohol, and stopped. Just stopped drinking. Lucky them, but for many, many alcoholics, it simply isn’t that easy. They cannot “just stop drinking.” They are addicted, and that affects their decision making. Only someone who completely fails to understand would say, “So, just don’t go to the liquor store. Is someone holding a gun to your head?” The answer is, yes: their own head is holding a gun to their head. Severe depression is similar. You can’t “just cheer up.” The part of your brain that “just cheers up” isn’t working properly. Might as well tell the guy with no legs, “Just stand up.” ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/502 "2013-07-18T00:34:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Nobody would. The issue is that **lekatt** keeps telling them “You haven’t gotten better because you don’t believe enough.” I never said that. You just make it up as you go along. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/503 "2013-07-18T00:36:28Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Believe me, I have nothing but contempt for the “blame the victim” view of things. > > I know people who have had problems with alcohol, and stopped. Just stopped drinking. Lucky them, but for many, many alcoholics, it simply isn’t that easy. They cannot “just stop drinking.” They are addicted, and that affects their decision making. Only someone who completely fails to understand would say, “So, just don’t go to the liquor store. Is someone holding a gun to your head?” The answer is, yes: their own head is holding a gun to their head. > > Severe depression is similar. You can’t “just cheer up.” The part of your brain that “just cheers up” isn’t working properly. Might as well tell the guy with no legs, “Just stand up.” I don’t know why you think that others believe that way. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/504 "2013-07-18T00:48:09Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I never said that. That undercurrent has been present in every single post I have ever seen from you on these topics. I’ve explained this before. Over and over you insist that people can get better if they just believe or want it enough or take the right attitude. That’s awfully ironic when we’re discussing depression since the whole problem in the first place is that people want to feel better and they can’t, and it’s worse because you’re blaming the victims of depression, which, if they were listening (they’re not) would make them feel worse. I’m pretty sure you’ve taken the same approach for illnesses other than depression, but one thing at a time I guess. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/505 "2013-07-18T01:16:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That undercurrent has been present in every single post I have ever seen from you on these topics. I’ve explained this before. Over and over you insist that people can get better if they just believe or want it enough or take the right attitude. That’s awfully ironic when we’re discussing depression since the whole problem in the first place is that people want to feel better and they can’t, and it’s worse because you’re blaming the victims of depression, which, if they were listening (they’re not) would make them feel worse. I’m pretty sure you’ve taken the same approach for illnesses other than depression, but one thing at a time I guess. You are just assuming things not in evidence. If I say I can help people overcome depression (and I have) but no one says I will try it. Then what and who is at fault. I do not judge people because that is counter productive. Everyone knows that a positive attitude is the best attitude. Lincoln said “people are about as happy as they want to be.” Clemons said “some people believe they can and some people believe they can’t. They are both right.” I hope you are not saying a negative attitude is best, but it seems you are. I don’t charge anything and never have for helping others. I have spent the last 25 years of my life doing just that. I really don’t care what you assume you know about me and my life. NM ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/506 "2013-07-18T01:26:14Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > If I say I can help people overcome depression (and I have) but no one says I will try it. Then what and who is at fault. Why would anybody believe you? > [@](#): > > I do not judge people because that is counter productive. Saying you don’t judge people and actually not judging people are two different things. > [@](#): > > Everyone knows that a positive attitude is the best attitude. And having a positive attitude isn’t the same as blaming people for being negative. That’s the distinction you won’t understand. > [@](#): > > Lincoln said “people are about as happy as they want to be.” You trotted out that chestnut in another thread recently and I pointed out that Lincoln was pretty depressed himself. Which makes sense if you think about it: the statement can be read as an affirmation of positivity or as someone blaming himself for his own negativity. > [@](#): > > I hope you are not saying a negative attitude is best, but it seems you are. I’ve never said or implied that. My skepticism toward your blame-the-victim statements and blithe Hallmark platitudes is based on the statements themselves, not some kind of rejection of having a positive attitude. If you’re going to encourage people to be positive you have to do it the right way so you’re not telling them ‘if you feel bad, it’s your own fault for not trying hard enough’ (or praying hard enough or a lot of other things). You’ve shown no comprehension of this concept. > [@](#): > > I don’t charge anything and never have for helping others. That’s good since based on your lack of training, lack of knowledge about mental health, and the lack of results you’ve touted (a schizophrenic who smoked himself to death was counted as a success story) I doubt you’ve accomplished anything. I hope that at least you haven’t convinced a lot of unsuspecting people to internalize their guilt, because if people took your words on this board to heart, that’s what would happen. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/507 "2013-07-18T01:40:31Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I don’t know why you think that others believe that way. Well, I’ve met such people. They actually do say, “Just cheer up.” The nastier among them say, “You’re only acting depressed because you want attention.” Those are just assholes… But even well-meaning people say, “You can get over it if you try hard enough.” Such people are not assholes. But they are wrong. > [@lekatt](#): > > . . . Lincoln said “people are about as happy as they want to be.” > Clemons said “some people believe they can and some people believe they can’t. They are both right.” But belief isn’t the sole distinction. Some people simply and factually can’t. This, by the way, is particularly ironic, as Abraham Lincoln suffered from very severe depression. ---
**Author:** ![thisishowwepray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@thisishowwepray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thisishowwepray)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/508 "2013-07-18T02:51:38Z")
Ultimately, the function of diagnosis is prognosis and, as has been mentioned, a formal DSM diagnosis makes it possible for a patient to get insurance coverage for treatment and helps mental health professional determine what the best course of action is for the patient. Denying that mental illness exists is absurd given the abundance of scientific evidence of the existence of mood disorders, schizophrenia, and other axis I diagnoses. However, I do think that axis II (personality disorders) is more problematic because the diagnostic criteria seem much more subjective to me. Hypothetically, a diagnosis should only be made if the symptoms are interfering with functioning. That said, mental health professionals aren’t infallible and it’s certainly possible that mental illnesses are overdiagnosed. However, it’s also possible that we have just discovered more consistent sets of problematic symptoms and prognoses for the symptoms. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/509 "2013-07-18T02:57:51Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > **Mental illness is exaggerated** I hear that a lot, sir. Other arm into the straitjacket, please . . . ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/510 "2013-07-18T21:04:01Z")
I wanted to mention [this](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130605190030.htm) as another counter to “‘mental illness’ is a label we give to behavior deemed socially unacceptable/the tail of the bell curve/whatever”. It’s about actual brain differences between people who have bipolar disorder and people who do not. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/511 "2013-07-18T21:26:10Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > But belief isn’t the sole distinction. Some people simply and factually can’t. > > This, by the way, is particularly ironic, as Abraham Lincoln suffered from very severe depression. To be fair, quoting Lincoln as if he were a famous modern neurologist is actually an _improvement_: we should strive for more of this mere level of wrongness. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/512 "2013-07-19T16:09:02Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Well, I’ve met such people. They actually do say, “Just cheer up.” The nastier among them say, “You’re only acting depressed because you want attention.” Those are just assholes… But even well-meaning people say, “You can get over it if you try hard enough.” Such people are not assholes. But they are wrong. God. Shit like this makes me feel incredibly grateful to have the level of support that I do. I don’t think anyone has _ever_ accused me to just trying to get attention. I can’t imagine how incredibly difficult it would be to deal with something as crippling as severe depression when there was nobody you could count on to understand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522.md?page=25)