# Mental illness is exaggerated **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 9, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522 "2013-06-09T03:18:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/81 "2013-06-10T03:55:39Z")
Okay, let’s put out the question more directly: You said in your OP that “most psychiatrists are mentally ill” (post 1). You also said that “schizophrenia is the only “real” mental disease” (post 10). Therefore, you are asserting that most psychiatrists are schizophrenic. How do you respond? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/82 "2013-06-10T05:01:17Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > About psychiatrists being crazy this link is a good start [Do Psychiatrists go Crazy? | Student Doctor Network](http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-50027.html) So what’s your answer then?? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/83 "2013-06-10T05:29:29Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > I will put this here again since some people seemed to have skipped over it Personally I believe schizophrenia is the only “real” mental disease. Dr. Thomas Szasz who is a psychiatrist even wrote a book about it called The Myth of Mental Illness. Read up on the [Anti-psychiatry - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-psychiatry) movement. IMHO, our attitude towards mental illness is a [Man and the Boy and the Donkey](http://www.bartleby.com/17/1/62.html) problem (from Aesop’s fable). No matter which approach we pursue, there will be many who think it’s the wrong one. Take anti-psychiatry. What you imply in the OP notwithstanding, this actually has become the standard model as regards the legal issue of involuntary commitment. (What happens in private practice is another matter.) Since the 1960s, it has been very difficult to force the mentally ill into treatment. Presumably you think this is a good thing. But, consider this case study: [When My Crazy Father Actually Lost His Mind](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/magazine/when-my-crazy-father-actually-lost-his-mind.html?pagewanted=all). It’s an article from last year in the New York Times Magazine, (Warning, the article is long, but real life is messy that way.) The upshot is that the subject of the article had acute mental health issues by any reasonable definition of the term, but the system had no way to deal with those without his consent and cooperation. By a combination of perseverance, love and luck, the case came out well. It compellingly illustrates, though, how anti-psychiatry can go wrong. Which isn’t to say psychiatry is always the right answer. Resistance to involuntary commitments arose for a good reason. It’s a complicated topic. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/84 "2013-06-10T06:44:37Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > I have noticed that its common for psychiatry to accuse anyone who criticizes it of mental illness. That alone speaks volumes. That’s funny, I have noticed it’s common for people who do not believe in psychiatry to accuse psychiatrists of being mentally ill. Have you noticed that yourself? BTW, I think Freud was a quack. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/85 "2013-06-10T07:07:19Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > Ignore what question? The question is: **are you asserting that psychiatrists are schizophrenic?** [ul] [li]You said psychiatrists are mentally ill[/li][li]Then you said the only real mental illness is schizophrenia[/li][li]Therefore you are asserting that psychiatrists are schizophrenic[/li][/ul] Is that really what you meant to do? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/86 "2013-06-10T08:03:15Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > I suggest you read up on ECT as you have no idea on how it works or its history. ECT was and still is used to treat schizophrenia. It works by erasing memories and that’s its primary function. And chemotherapy works by making cancer patients throw up, and that is its primary function. This is how the noxious humors are expelled from the body, thereby curing cancer. You are confusing a side effect with a methodology of treatment. Schizophrenics wouldn’t be cured by giving them some hypothetical memory-erasing drug, for God’s sake. What precise memories do you think cause schizophrenia? I have two schizophrenic cousins: one has been treated by a host of medications (with varying degrees of success), the other untreated. Both have been utterly crippled by the voices they hear and the paranoia warning them that their loved ones, people who are trying their hardest to help them, are murderers and pedophiles. One (the untreated one) at one point believed herself to be the daughter of Martha Stewart and her own cousin, _who is younger than she is by about five years_. She also thought certain singers were sending coded messages to her via their album covers, and thinks my six-year-old sister killed my brother _and_ my mother. (God, I can’t seem to get away from this subject today.) I would be _fascinated_ to find out that she has memories that just need to be eradicated in order to remove such delusions from her brain. Meanwhile, my other cousin is, thanks to absolutely tireless support from his father (despite threats this cousin has made to my uncle’s life), being treated, though the voices are still present and prevent him from doing things he used to love, such as playing music. But unlike my other cousin, this man accepts that he’s mentally ill and needs treatment. Both depression and schizophrenia run rampant in my family, unfortunately. While certain tragedies do account for much of the depression, I have no doubt there is a biological/clinical element to it as well. I’ve suffered from depression as far back as I can remember, starting in extremely young childhood. Nothing happened to me specifically that _made_ me depressed (until a bit later on in my life). And let’s take another mental illness I’m fortunate enough to have. (Sigh. I really hit the jackpot.) Panic disorder. I’m not just afraid of elevators or crowds or planes. I get panic attacks out of nowhere, quite literally while I’m just sitting around in a perfectly quiet and relatively serene mood. Because I’m now terrified of the symptoms of these attacks (racing heart, adrenaline rushing through my body making me feel as if electricity is being applied to my nerves, an absolute certainty that I’m in some great danger), a cycle begins where just a slight elevation in my heart rate causes me to become hyper-vigilant, and this makes me more afraid, and the panic rises until I become unable to function. For days after an attack I’m left miserable and despairing of ever being free. I’ve been helped tremendously over the last couple of years by certain meds that I’m not going to mention here (legal, but controversial and I don’t want to get into that argument) as well as cognitive behavioral therapy and other “tricks” I play on myself in order to distract myself from turning a low-level anxiety attack into a full-on panic hysteria that has, in the past, brought me to the ER certain I was having a heart attack. (P.S. I wasn’t.) I’ve known bipolar sufferers who are in torment and who’ve tried to kill themselves. Very little has worked for them. So yeah. No mental illness but schizophrenia my ass. Saying that “some things are overdiagnosed” is fine; illnesses go through phases and psychiatry is a _relatively_ newish field. The brain itself is poorly understood even by neurologists, who still admit they’re not entirely certain why things work the way they do. It is a universe we have barely explored, and we are only just mapping some of the stars. And mental illnesses aren’t the only ones that have gone through phases of utter misunderstanding. Yes, homosexuality was once in the DSM. Meanwhile, epilepsy (not a mental illness) was once considered possession by the devil; someone born with a cleft lip or palate was thought to have had a mother frightened by a rabbit. Things that aren’t understood are given incorrect explanations in an attempt to understand them–hell, people thought there was a face on Mars and that this is proof of a past civilization. People _still_ believe in freakin’ Sasquatches! Humans are notorious for making errors when trying to work through various theories. That doesn’t mean every theory is wrong, or that those who try to find the truth have evil intentions. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/87 "2013-06-10T10:24:03Z")
As a psychologist, I am interested in finding out if I have schizophrenia. Please advise. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/88 "2013-06-10T11:15:18Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > As a psychologist, I am interested in finding out if I have schizophrenia. Please advise. The voices should already have told you the answer. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/89 "2013-06-10T11:30:20Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > The voices should already have told you the answer. Duh. The voices contradict one another, so I remain unclear. I’ve been waiting for someone on the internet to explain. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/90 "2013-06-10T12:54:42Z")
As always in these kind of threads, I would like to challenge the ubiquitous assertion that psychiatric disorders are over-diagnosed. There is essentially no evidence that this is the case for any psychiatric disorder. Typically, within a given sample, you find more people empirically meeting criteria for a disorder than people who are or have been receiving treatment for the disorder. Service use data on particular disorders also does not tend to exceed the prevalence rates identified in studies. On the issue of sexual fetishes, they are defined as requiring significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of functioning. Basically, if shoes really get you hot, that’s super. It’s not diagnostic. If shoes really get you hot, and that ends up costing you relationships or to lose jobs, then you might meet criteria for the disorder. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/91 "2013-06-10T13:21:53Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The voices contradict one another, so I remain unclear. I’ve been waiting for someone on the internet to explain. Let us know when you start hearing voices from the internet. Those are the ones you need to watch out for. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/92 "2013-06-10T13:26:20Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > Yes it does categorize “every little human quirk” as a mental illness. Have you bothered to actually read through the DSM? Common sexual fetishes like foot fetish ect are classified as mental illness. Not to mention being gay was in the DSM as a mental illness until the 1970’s Not quite. Just because they are in the DSM doesn’t mean they are classified as “mental illness.” This article explains exactly this point: > **[Is This Type Of Sex Pathological?](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sexual-fetishes-dsm-v_n_3008421)** > > There's a debate over whether certain behaviors should be considered signs of mental disorders. > [@](#): > > The DSM currently defines “unusual” sexual turn-ons as paraphilias. Paraphilias include everything from foot fetishes, S&M and erotic eating to exhibitionism and pedophilia. These paraphilias are considered harmless unless the person experiencing them feels distressed about their preferences or if their unusual sexual practices are harmful to others. “Simply put, the DSM V will say that happy kinksters don’t have a mental disorder. But unhappy kinksters do,” wrote Slate’s Jillian Keenan. So the DSM simply describes the condition without labeling it as unhealthy or otherwise judging it, unless it is harmful to the person or others. For instance, a man who loves women’s shoes is harmless, but a man who loves them so much that he impulsively steals them needs some kind of help. (P.S. I see that Hentor has explained this already). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/93 "2013-06-10T14:17:38Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > About psychiatrists being crazy this link is a good start [Do Psychiatrists go Crazy? | Student Doctor Network](http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-50027.html) I don’t know what I expected, but a 10-year-old message board thread with no cites? Impressive. ---
**Author:** ![matt357](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@matt357](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt357)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/94 "2013-06-10T15:06:02Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Not quite. > > Just because they are in the DSM doesn’t mean they are classified as “mental illness.” > > This article explains exactly this point: > > [Sexual Fetishes Likely Still Included In DSM-V -- But Not Necessarily As Mental Illnesses | HuffPost Women](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/sexual-fetishes-dsm-v_n_3008421.html) > > So the DSM simply describes the condition without labeling it as unhealthy or otherwise judging it, unless it is harmful to the person or others. For instance, a man who loves women’s shoes is harmless, but a man who loves them so much that he impulsively steals them needs some kind of help. > > (P.S. I see that Hentor has explained this already). The problem with that is that a psychiatrist can claim it is interfering with someones life or is harmful even though it is not. It is all subjective. I have a friend who is a social worker and she said psychiatrists lie all the time about things like this to force people into treatment. The problem is there is no oversight or “habeas corpus” for things like this. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/95 "2013-06-10T15:07:29Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > The problem with that is that a psychiatrist can claim it is interfering with someones life or is harmful even though it is not. The fact that the person is seeing a psychiatrist suggests the person already thinks it’s harmful or interfering with his/her life. ---
**Author:** ![matt357](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@matt357](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt357)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/96 "2013-06-10T15:09:58Z")
> [@PBear42](#): > > IMHO, our attitude towards mental illness is a [Man and the Boy and the Donkey](http://www.bartleby.com/17/1/62.html) problem (from Aesop’s fable). No matter which approach we pursue, there will be many who think it’s the wrong one. > > Take anti-psychiatry. What you imply in the OP notwithstanding, this actually has become the standard model as regards the legal issue of involuntary commitment. (What happens in private practice is another matter.) Since the 1960s, it has been very difficult to force the mentally ill into treatment. Presumably you think this is a good thing. > > But, consider this case study: [When My Crazy Father Actually Lost His Mind](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/magazine/when-my-crazy-father-actually-lost-his-mind.html?pagewanted=all). It’s an article from last year in the New York Times Magazine, (Warning, the article is long, but real life is messy that way.) The upshot is that the subject of the article had acute mental health issues by any reasonable definition of the term, but the system had no way to deal with those without his consent and cooperation. By a combination of perseverance, love and luck, the case came out well. It compellingly illustrates, though, how anti-psychiatry can go wrong. > > Which isn’t to say psychiatry is always the right answer. Resistance to involuntary commitments arose for a good reason. It’s a complicated topic. I wish that was true but it seems they are still committing people who are not mentally ill. This link is a good example [http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/01/05/42804.htm](http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/01/05/42804.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/97 "2013-06-10T15:14:14Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > The problem is there is no oversight or “habeas corpus” for things like this. Of course there is. If your social worker friend is telling you otherwise, she is lying to you. Psychiatrists cannot compel treatment. In most jurisdictions, emergency holds or evaluations are possible, but are limited (typically to 48 or 72 hours). Beyond that, any compulsory inpatient or outpatient treatment must be mandated by a judge, meaning that there is oversight and due process. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/98 "2013-06-10T15:14:41Z")
> [@matt357](#): > > I wish that was true but it seems they are still committing people who are not mentally ill. This link is a good example [http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/01/05/42804.htm](http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/01/05/42804.htm) I’m glad you came back, because I’ve got a question for you: Are you asserting that psychiatrists are schizophrenic, which seems to be what you are saying in your OP? ---
**Author:** ![elninost0rm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@elninost0rm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elninost0rm)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/99 "2013-06-10T15:26:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m glad you came back, because I’ve got a question for you: Are you asserting that psychiatrists are schizophrenic, which seems to be what you are saying in your OP? He’s not going to answer this question. Repeatedly thinking he will is perhaps more amusing than every single post he’s made in this thread combined. ---
**Author:** ![matt357](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@matt357](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt357)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522/100 "2013-06-10T15:27:36Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Of course there is. If your social worker friend is telling you otherwise, she is lying to you. > > Psychiatrists cannot compel treatment. In most jurisdictions, emergency holds or evaluations are possible, but are limited (typically to 48 or 72 hours). Beyond that, any compulsory inpatient or outpatient treatment must be mandated by a judge, meaning that there is oversight and due process. Some states are 72 hours, some are 14 days before you see a judge. But would you want to be locked up for 72 hours if your not mentally ill? That’s 3 days basically in a jail. The police cant do that and neither should anyone else be allowed to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-illness-is-exaggerated/660522.md?page=6)