# Mental patients thinking that they're Napolean? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 21, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314 "2005-10-21T18:54:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/1 "2005-10-21T18:54:26Z")
Where did this staple of one-liners come from? I assume it means the crazy person has delusions of power, and is disconnected from reality. But I’ve heard/seen _lots_ of jokes/sketches/cartoons about a guy in a straightjacket who thinks he’s Napolean, and I’ve never heard one where it’s Stalin, Alexander the Great, etc. I assume part of the answer might be in the oft-discussed insecurities Napolean was said to have felt about his height (and other physical features)? I’m hoping there’s a relatively objective answer here, but if not, Mods, please move as you see fit. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/2 "2005-10-21T19:01:37Z")
It’s mostly cartoons and TV, not one-liners. Napoleon had a distinctive [hat](http://www.dhm.de/ENGLISH/sammlungen/militaria/eh181.html). ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/3 "2005-10-21T19:18:18Z")
I shouldn’t have said one-liners – rather, old jokes, probably dating back to the vaudeville era. I haven’t heard many since I was a kid, and I’m 46. Humor can change a lot in forty years. An example: Two mental patients are in adjacent cells. The first patient declares loudly, “I’m Napolean! _I’m Napolean!_ GOD GAVE ME THAT NAME!!!” The second patient answers, “I did **not**!” One of the best-known references I can think of is where Bugs Bunny spends an entire cartoon tangling with (supposedly) the real Napolean, only to have two mental institution orderlies cart him off. “Another Napolean?”, says one orderly. “That’s the third one today”. I think you’re right about the hat though. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/4 "2005-10-21T19:29:12Z")
Napoleon would know how to spell his name. ---
**Author:** ![rowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@rowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowe)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/5 "2005-10-21T19:35:33Z")
These jokes are still alive today. In the excellent video game _Psychonauts_, there’s a character in a mental institution who thinks he’s Napoleon’s brother, complete with hat and all. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/6 "2005-10-21T19:39:05Z")
Hey, _I_ never claimed to be sane. > [@Terminus Est](#): > > Napoleon would know how to spell his name. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/7 "2005-10-21T19:42:50Z")
It might have occurred back when Napoleon was contemporary. The kind of thinking that gets you invited by the white-coated men for a ride to the looney bin often involves eliding the difference between an individual as _symbol_ of what we consider them to stand for and that individual as a specific person. So the characters whose identity gets appropriated are generally larger-than-life figures, or figures very much wrapped up in a highly publicized sequence of events, that everyone (not just mental patients) can see as “standing in” for something other than just themselves. Donald Trump. Saddam Hussein. Jeffrey Dahmer. Harriet Miers. And of course the all-time leaders, Jesus Christ, the AntiChrist, and The Devil. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/8 "2005-10-21T19:50:07Z")
Aside from the distinctive Napoleonic outfit — which is easy to draw in a cartoon, and is instantly recognizable worldwide — you have the advantage that Napoleon was an imperious megalomaniac, almost a little crazy himself. Or at least you can depict him that way without much fear of controversy. Napoleon makes for a good foil in cartoons and other comedies. Just look at _Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure_. Also, Napoleon’s exploits are safely in the remote past, relatively speaking. A crazy person thinking he’s Hitler, Stalin, or Pol Pot wouldn’t be so funny. Instead he would make us squirm a bit in discomfort. You want the character to be merely crazy, not a psychopath. This is my armchair conjecturing anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/9 "2005-10-21T21:01:09Z")
> [@rowe](#): > > These jokes are still alive today. In the excellent video game _Psychonauts_, there’s a character in a mental institution who thinks he’s Napoleon’s brother, complete with hat and all. Well there were Bonaparte brothers[who got around the US quite a bit](http://www.heraldica.org/topics/france/bonapart.htm). I imagine they celebrities in a lot of locales in their own right ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/10 "2005-10-21T21:01:32Z")
> [@rowe](#): > > These jokes are still alive today. In the excellent video game _Psychonauts_, there’s a character in a mental institution who thinks he’s Napoleon’s brother, complete with hat and all. Well there were Bonaparte brothers[who got around the US quite a bit](http://www.heraldica.org/topics/france/bonapart.htm). I imagine they were celebrities in a lot of locales in their own right ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/11 "2005-10-22T00:07:58Z")
> [@F. U. Shakespeare](#): > > I assume part of the answer might be in the oft-discussed insecurities Napolean was said to have felt about his height (and other physical features)? > . Napoleon actually was of average stature, or maybe even quite tall by his era’s standarts. The reason why he’s told to be short in the english-speaking world is unclear. Possibly it’s due to his size expressed in french feets and inches (both longer than their british counterparts) being mistaken as british feet and inches. Or maybe it’s just due to contemporary british caricatures. I could dig up his actual size if you really wanted to know it, since I searched for it when I heard for the first time about him being supposedly very small on the english-speaking internet. It was something between 1m 68 and 1m 72, I don’t remember exactly (and I let you convert it in feet/inches). As for his other physical features, I wouldn’t know (though hasn’t the part of his anatomy we’re refering to been preserved and auctionned some time ago?). Oh, and by the way, in french jokes and sketches too crazy people believe they’re Napoleon despite the fact that nobody ever heard of him being small and as a consequence insecure. So, I don’t think your guess is correct. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/12 "2005-10-22T01:11:36Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Possibly it’s due to his size expressed in french feets and inches Band name! ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/13 "2005-10-22T01:35:36Z")
Napoleon XIV, “They’re Coming to Take Me Away, Ha-Haa!” bw “!aaH-aH ,yawA eM ekaT ot gnimoC er’yehT” ,VIX noelopaN ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/14 "2005-10-22T03:45:59Z")
From memory, his height was incorrectly translated as 5’2", but was actually about 5’6" – not exceptionally short for a man born in 1769, but certainly not tall. > [@clairobscur](#): > > Napoleon actually was of average stature, or maybe even quite tall by his era’s standarts. The reason why he’s told to be short in the english-speaking world is unclear. Possibly it’s due to his size expressed in french feets and inches (both longer than their british counterparts) being mistaken as british feet and inches. Or maybe it’s just due to contemporary british caricatures. I could dig up his actual size if you really wanted to know it, since I searched for it when I heard for the first time about him being supposedly very small on the english-speaking internet. It was something between 1m 68 and 1m 72, I don’t remember exactly (and I let you convert it in feet/inches). I read 30+ years ago in _The People’s Almanac_ about Napoleon’s really small penis being auctioned off, but I later heard that it was uncertain that it was his (which makes intuitive sense to me – how would you have gone about authenticating such a thing in pre-DNA-test 1975?) Does anyone have any more definitive info? > [@](#): > > As for his other physical features, I wouldn’t know (though hasn’t the part of his anatomy we’re refering to been preserved and auctionned some time ago?). ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/15 "2005-10-22T03:55:22Z")
The Flecther Memorial home… ofr incurable Tyrants… and Kings… no? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/16 "2005-10-22T04:35:50Z")
Napoleon was around 5’6" or 5’7", which means that while he certainly wasn’t tall, he was at most only slightly shorter than average for his time. ---
**Author:** ![Mesquite-oh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@Mesquite-oh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mesquite-oh)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/17 "2005-10-22T06:01:13Z")
Being a mental health professional, I’ve had the chance to spend some time around some “interesting” people. In my experience, it would be unlikely that these individuals would be familiar with who Napoleon was. A more common theme is that they are “agents” of some sort. I have met a few guys who claim that they work for the CIA, or they are some sort of assassins, or they are important members of a local street gang. I’ve met a few people who meowed and barked for a little while, but never anyone who thought they were a famous person. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/18 "2005-10-22T06:16:50Z")
I remember in my high school intro to psych class, we were told that the most common delusions of grandeur were thinking you were Napoleon or Jesus. Quite a pair. ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/19 "2005-10-22T06:38:27Z")
> [@chriscya](#): > > Being a mental health professional, I’ve had the chance to spend some time around some “interesting” people. In my experience, it would be unlikely that these individuals would be familiar with who Napoleon was. A more common theme is that they are “agents” of some sort. I have met a few guys who claim that they work for the CIA, or they are some sort of assassins, or they are important members of a local street gang. I’ve met a few people who meowed and barked for a little while, but never anyone who thought they were a famous person. So this Napolean stuff is pretty much a media construct? ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314/20 "2005-10-22T13:08:41Z")
I find the bolded part below a little surprising. I once dated a woman who was a psychiatric nurse practitioner, and she had several patients over the years who thought they were Jesus. She also had one who thought he was Elvis, and, interestingly, one who thought he was homeless advocate Mitch Snyder. (Not to impugn the late Mr. Snyder, who certainly did good works, but I’d think even he would be surprised to be included in such company). No Napoleons, though. I would agree with you that lots of people today know little or nothing about Napoleon. But I would bet that damn near everybody in 19th century Europe or America had at least heard the name. Perhaps (to expand on what **AHunter3** suggested) at some point between his death and the present, Napoleon was a figure similar to Elvis: an all-powerful, universally-known demigod from the relatively recent past (and a chick magnet to boot)? > [@chriscya](#): > > Being a mental health professional, I’ve had the chance to spend some time around some “interesting” people. In my experience, it would be unlikely that these individuals would be familiar with who Napoleon was. A more common theme is that they are “agents” of some sort. I have met a few guys who claim that they work for the CIA, or they are some sort of assassins, or they are important members of a local street gang. I’ve met a few people who meowed and barked for a little while, **but never anyone who thought they were a famous person.** [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mental-patients-thinking-that-theyre-napolean/327314.md?page=2)