# Mentalist stage acts: how do they do it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** theater-stage-dance\ **Created:** [August 18, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107 "2021-08-18T17:38:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2021, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/142 "2021-09-06T23:21:46Z")
I’m not positive either (I read it almost that long ago), but Googling does reveal that that book does have a magician act on the Enterprise and Klingons. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/143 "2021-09-07T00:13:07Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I don’t know if he could be a jerk or not but I am firmly of the opinion that what he did to Uri Geller wasn’t evidence of him being a jerk. Geller was being a prime jerk by pretending that he actually had special powers. Making him look a fool was what he deserved. I’m sorry, @Princhester, but you are wrong on many levels. In my youth I was an amateur magician. I’m nowhere near Ianzin’s level of knowledge, but I know a few things. Most magicians do not think Uri Geller’s act is fraudulent. They see it as a legitimate conjuring act. He is held in high regard for both his technical skills, and his abilities as an entertainer. He performed in front of the Magic Circle (arguably the world’s greatest magicians’ club) to great acclaim, and was given a rare and prestigious award. [See here for details.](http://magicians.co.uk/news/international-magic-award/#more-235) A thing that you don’t know is that it is quite common for magicians to perform a trick, and tell the audience that it is something real. Houdini did it. You may have heard of his [Milk Can Escape](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EqjRjYECwM). Locked inside a steel box, with locks outside the box, and he has to escape from it. It was presented as a difficult and dangerous stunt requiring great skill and considerable risk. People were led to believe that he was able to open locks from the other side of a steel barrier. Actually it’s a trick., and a very simple one. I could literally teach you the trick in less than 60 seconds. Houdinii required considerable ingenuity to invent the trick but performing it is easy. If Houdini could really escape from a locked box, it would certainly be a p0aranormal power. If you criticise Uri Geller, then by rights you should equally criticise Houdini, and anyone else that performed the stunt. As for “making him look a fool” I’m sorry to tell you that didn’t happen. Uri’s reputation was completely unaffected by it. In fact, Merv Griffin watched it, and immediately booked Uri Geller to appear on his own show. Most people watching Uri Geller are aware that he is a magician performing a trick… Sabotaging the trick did not change anyone’s mind.But there were at least a few who saw it as a dick move by Carson. His own reputation was damaged, just a little bit. Basically, he shot himself in the foot doing this. tl,dr version - the proper response to Uri Geller’s performance is to say “what a clever piece of conjuring”. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/144 "2021-09-07T00:37:56Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Penn Gillette said something about how the reason people didn’t guess how tricks were done is that nobody could believe that anyone would waste so much time and energy in preparation to do something so incredibly trivial. Wish I could find the exact quote; it was great, and is something I try to explain to my kids in magic club. Are you sure it was Penn Gillette? I remember [Jonathan Creek](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Creek) saying the exact same thing. I think it was in the pilot, _The Wrestler’s Tomb._ ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/145 "2021-09-07T00:40:43Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Are you sure it was Penn Gillette? Yup. Note the quote above, where Teller says almost the same thing. This isn’t a novel observation among magicians, it’s just Penn said it in his typically sardonic self-effacing way. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/146 "2021-09-07T01:12:30Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I’m sorry, @Princhester, but you are wrong on many levels. > > In my youth I was an amateur magician. I’m nowhere near Ianzin’s level of knowledge, but I know a few things. > > Most magicians do not think Uri Geller’s act is fraudulent. They see it as a legitimate conjuring act. He is held in high regard for both his technical skills, and his abilities as an entertainer. He performed in front of the Magic Circle (arguably the world’s greatest magicians’ club) to great acclaim, and was given a rare and prestigious award. > > [See here for details.](http://magicians.co.uk/news/international-magic-award/#more-235) > > A thing that you don’t know is that it is quite common for magicians to perform a trick, and tell the audience that it is something real. Houdini did it. You may have heard of his [Milk Can Escape](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EqjRjYECwM). Locked inside a steel box, with locks outside the box, and he has to escape from it. It was presented as a difficult and dangerous stunt requiring great skill and considerable risk. People were led to believe that he was able to open locks from the other side of a steel barrier. Actually it’s a trick., and a very simple one. I could literally teach you the trick in less than 60 seconds. Houdinii required considerable ingenuity to invent the trick but performing it is easy. > > If Houdini could really escape from a locked box, it would certainly be a p0aranormal power. If you criticise Uri Geller, then by rights you should equally criticise Houdini, and anyone else that performed the stunt. > > As for “making him look a fool” I’m sorry to tell you that didn’t happen. Uri’s reputation was completely unaffected by it. In fact, Merv Griffin watched it, and immediately booked Uri Geller to appear on his own show. > > Most people watching Uri Geller are aware that he is a magician performing a trick… Sabotaging the trick did not change anyone’s mind.But there were at least a few who saw it as a dick move by Carson. His own reputation was damaged, just a little bit. Basically, he shot himself in the foot doing this. > > tl,dr version - the proper response to Uri Geller’s performance is to say “what a clever piece of conjuring”. I’m sorry, @Peter_Morris, but you are wrong, on many levels. I’m not an amateur magician, and I don’t know how magicians in general think of Uri Geller. But James “The Amazing” Randi, who was a professional magician and who helped Johnny Carson set up that sting, certainly thought Geller was a fraud, and said so repeatedly. So did Martin Gardener, who was an amateur magician, historian of stage magic, and personal friend to a number of professional magicians. Uri Geller has occasionally made ambiguous statements about his “powers”, and especially since about 2008, he doesn’t seem to make definite statements that he has psychic powers. But he has in the past gone _far_ beyond making claims about psychic abilities as part of his act. His whole schtick, in fact, was that he _wasn’t_ a magician, and had literal psychic powers. He participated in experiments with parapsychologist Andrija Puharich, and later with parapsychologists Harold Puthoff and Russel Targ. Those latter experiments were conducted under U.S. government grants. That goes _well_ beyond mere showmanship and “it’s all part of the act” and into deliberate fraud. As to Harry Houdini, he may well have made claims about magical powers _during his act_ (I don’t know enough about the details of his performance to say one way or the other), but he didn’t publicly represent himself as having magical powers. He made no bones about being anything other than a conjurer. In fact, he rather famously debunked and publicly exposed fraudulent mediums and psychics. I think you do have a point about Carson “making [Geller] look like a fool.” That episode is frequently discussed by skeptics as a triumph for James Randi, but you’re right that in fact it actually _boosted_ Geller’s career. But I think you’re badly wrong about it being a “dick move by Carson.” Geller publicly and loudly claimed that he wasn’t a magician and that he was a genuine psychic. I don’t think publicly exposing someone who makes public claims that they have genuine psychic powers as a fraud is a dick move - it’s a perfectly reasonable response. If Geller isn’t a fraud, and the proper response is to applaud his conjuring skills rather than debunking his public claims, then is _anyone_ a fraudulent psychic? Are they _all_ just magicians maintaining kayfabe? When _is_ it appropriate to publicly debunk a “psychic”? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/147 "2021-09-07T01:18:00Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > See here for details. Not the first time I’ve seen that link from back in 2008…but the last time I saw it there were a lot more than the 19 positive responses now on that page. I wonder what happened to all the responses from 2008 to 2014? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/148 "2021-09-07T02:27:24Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > I’m sorry, @Peter_Morris, but you are wrong, on many levels. No, I really am not. The moderators wouldn’t like it if I discussed that person with you. I’ll just point out that the majority of magicians disagree with you on this. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/149 "2021-09-07T02:32:50Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I’ll just point out that the majority of magicians disagree with you on this. That old modified link doesn’t do much to make your point. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/150 "2021-09-07T02:50:03Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I’ll just point out that the majority of magicians disagree with you on this. Are we supposed to take this on your say-so, or is that link supposed to convince us? Because when I Google the name of that award, it does indeed seem rare: [I only find three links](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=%22David+Berglas+International+Magic+Award+from+The+Foundation+for+Promoting+the+Art+of+Magic%22), and all of them are about Geller getting it. [Wikipedia lists 8 winners](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Berglas#Honours). I’m not entirely convinced the award is prestigious, though. (Edit: the group that gives it out, the Foundation for Promoting the Art of Magic, has no Internet presence that I can find, including any IRS documentation. Have they made it vanish?) As for comparing Geller to Houdini, I’m unaware of Houdini engaging in quite so much litigation, or claiming to the US military that he had powers, or telling the Prime Minister of the UK that he would use telepathic powers to control her government policy, or telling people that a kidnap victim (who was never found) was going to turn up. His shenanigans go well beyond show business and into revolting fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/151 "2021-09-07T06:11:25Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Are we supposed to take this on your say-so, or is that link supposed to convince us? You know, I could spend few hours searching out many more positive comments from lots of different professional magicians. But I get the feeling that you would just handwave them too. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/152 "2021-09-07T06:32:06Z")
What a strange reason to lead with such a weak link…if indeed you actually have better ones, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/153 "2021-09-07T07:45:01Z")
Here’s a link for you. [https://boards.straightdope.com/search?q=%40peter\_morris%20james%20randi](https://boards.straightdope.com/search?q=%40peter_morris%20james%20randi) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/154 "2021-09-07T12:24:03Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > You know, I could spend few hours searching out many more positive comments from lots of different professional magicians. But I get the feeling that you would just handwave them too. I, uh, I guess I would “handwave” them, given your claim that the _majority_ of professional magicians disagree with **gdave’s** take. I certainly don’t think that Uri Geller is universally despised by every single other magician who’s ever earned a paycheck. I certainly wouldn’t be surprised if you can find a handful of folks who are friends with him and say nice things. But “the majority” is a remarkable claim. I first heard of Geller when I was like ten, and that obscure award he won from an obscure organization is literally the first time I’ve ever heard a fellow magician say anything nice about him. So, how about this: find three magicians that are really well-known (like, have regular shows in a specific venue, or have been on a national TV program, or the like) who say broadly complimentary things about his integrity/validity as a magician; or one similarly well-known magician who will make a claim that the majority of professional magicians respect Geller’s integrity. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/155 "2021-09-07T12:39:51Z")
I remember many moons ago Uri Geller was in a Daredevil comic, helping the Man Without Fear take on evil psychics. This article sums up the promotion and ensuing fallout from James Randi and Mark Evanier. > **[How Daredevil Got Caught in a Real Fight Between Celebrity Magicians](https://www.cbr.com/marvel-daredevil-uri-geller-james-randi-fight/)** > > A 1976 issue of Daredevil put Marvel Comics into the middle of a war of words between two famous magicians, Uri Geller and James Randi. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/156 "2021-09-07T12:47:56Z")
- applause - ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/157 "2021-09-07T13:12:31Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So, how about this: find three magicians that are really well-known (like, have regular shows in a specific venue, or have been on a national TV program, or the like) who say broadly complimentary things about his integrity/validity as a magician; [Here’s a collection of quotes from magicians.](https://www.urigeller.com/category/testimonials/quotes-from-magicians/) I list for you, three notable magicians saying broadly complimentary things about Uri Geller. The Creative mind of Uri Geller has significantly advanced the world of mentalism. No matter what your opinion may be concerning Mr. Geller’s career, there is no question as to the magnitude of his impact on the field. - **[Max Maven](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Maven)** “If … he genuinely does what he claims to by the methods he claims to use, then he is the only person in the world who can do it. If on the other hand he is a magician or a trickster or a con-man, he is also phenomenal – the best there has ever been. So, whichever way you want to look at him, we must respect him as one or the other.” - [David Berglas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Berglas)\*\* (Great Britain’s leading magical entertainer, President of the Magic Circle and holder of numerous international honours – England) You know, I like Uri Geller. He is a good guy. I think he made many things with his abilities. I think some of the things he shows are illusion. But I cannot claim for sure, that this applies to everything. . **David Copperfield** ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/158 "2021-09-07T13:18:35Z")
Before I respond, is this the best you have to offer? I don’t want to respond and then have you be like, “But wait, here’s more!” Remember, we’re talking, not about his _skills_, but about his _integrity_, whether they think it’s (your word) a “legitimate” act, as opposed to considering him a fraud and a con artist. These are the best quotes you have to offer in support of that idea? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/159 "2021-09-07T14:08:52Z")
The three quotes I gave DO address his integrity. “He’s a good guy” and so on. I could produce many others, but you will handwave them all. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/160 "2021-09-07T14:20:35Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > The Creative mind of Uri Geller has significantly advanced the world of mentalism. No matter what your opinion may be concerning Mr. Geller’s career, there is no question as to the magnitude of his impact on the field. > > - **[Max Maven](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Maven)** It’s astonishing that a quote that _specifically excludes_ “your opinion…concerning Mr. Geller’s career,” focusing solely on his impact, is offered as evidence of how magicians feel about his integrity. > [@](#): > > “If … he genuinely does what he claims to by the methods he claims to use, then he is the only person in the world who can do it. If on the other hand he is a magician or a trickster or a con-man, he is also phenomenal – the best there has ever been. So, whichever way you want to look at him, we must respect him as one or the other.” > > - [David Berglas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Berglas)\*\* (Great Britain’s leading magical entertainer, President of the Magic Circle and holder of numerous international honours – England) But not as astonishing as offering a quote _that specifically allows that he might be a con-man_. Are you freaking kidding me? A magician says he might be a con man, and you think that shows that magicians think he has integrity? > [@](#): > > You know, I like Uri Geller. He is a good guy. I think he made many things with his abilities. I think some of the things he shows are illusion. But I cannot claim for sure, that this applies to everything. > . **David Copperfield** This quote is, at least, anodyne–but suggesting someone likes someone and thinks he’s a “good guy” does not in any way suggest he thinks Geller has integrity. Especially given that Copperfield, early on, mimicked all Geller’s tricks and explicitly said he was doing so using stage magic. I mean, come on. You’re gonna call this “handwaving,” but that’s just because you’ll say that about anyone disagreeing with your insanely weak-sauce evidence. This is like the Texas Pete of personal-integrity endorsements. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2021, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107/161 "2021-09-07T14:28:26Z")
There’s always the Kreskin impersonators you have to watch out for, though. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/6LjiuYShyKA/maxresdefault.jpg "SCTV - The Amazing Kretin") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LjiuYShyKA) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mentalist-stage-acts-how-do-they-do-it/949107.md?page=9)