Mentalist stage acts: how do they do it?

This may have been covered in that James Randi video, but I haven’t watched (don’t cotton to them thar movin’ pitchers).

Even before the Carson show, I remember seeing Geller on a late night talk show. He of course, brought a spoon with him, and while he was talking to the host the camera panned down and he was rubbing the spoon! Lengthwise, and with pressure. To my young mind it looked like he was trying to heat it up. Even then I thought “WHY are you letting him play with the spoon he’s going to bend?”

Except that “how a trick is done” isn’t the same thing as “how a stage magician does what he does”. It’s only a very, very small part of what a stage magician does. Anyone can buy a book, or watch a YouTube video, of a bunch of simple tricks, but that won’t give them an act. They could even put in thousands of hours of practice on difficult sleight of hand, and still not have an act. But a genuinely skilled magician can take that same sleight of hand, or even those same simple YouTube tricks, and make a great act out of them. Stage magic is, first and foremost, a performance, so to do it well, you need to be good at performing, and that’s not something those “Magic for Beginners” books or videos teach.

Heh. I tell people I know barely enough magic to impress an eight-year-old – but that’s enough for me to teach my afterschool magic club to kids in grades 3-5. And one of the first things I explain to them is that it’s a performance, and it’s one of the hardest things to convince them of. No matter how I try to convince them, I see them after the club running up to their parents grinning, not saying a word, and pulling the loop of string through their neck, and parents are thinking WTF are you doing now and saying, “Oh, wow, honey, is that one of the tricks you learned?”

I spend a lot of time helping them devise stories and jokes and gestures to sell the gimmick, to create what I call “the plausible impossible” explanation for what the audience sees. But a lot of kids are convinced that the gimmick’s the thing, and that pulling it off successfully is all there is to a performance.

I was fortunate to be invited onto Derren Brown’s TV show when he did a chess trick (defeating a team of nine players simultaneously - including four Grandmasters.) :sunglasses:

Derren revealed how he did it immediately afterwards on the TV show, so I feel comfortable telling you lot.
Now there are only three ways to defeat such a strong team:

  • bribery (sadly we were just given some refreshments :wink:)
  • being Gary Kasparov / a top computer (or having him/it secretly communicate moves during the display)
  • pairing the top eight players and having them play each other (Derren just acts as a ‘messenger’ passing the moves across), and beating the weakest player

When we saw the studio set-up (we were all sitting back to back, with opposite colours), we knew method 3 was in operation … with method two just for the weakest player.

Even though we knew how it was done, it was still an incredible performance!
Derren did the whole thing in one continuous take (lasting over two hours).
He had to remember perfectly hundreds of chess moves (in batches of four.) :nerd_face: One single slip-up and he would lose two games.

Afterwards an assistant said “Derren, your car is ready.” However he took the time to thank us all personally and sign autographs.
Top bloke. :smiley:

I’m sure all the chess players went along with the scenario, and were paid for it. And it’s such a well-known trick that they were probably holding back their laughter while playing. In such a simultaneous exhibition, the exhibitor invariably takes White on all boards; here, the colors alternate.

Yeah, that one was pretty bad. I know the performance is important. But, if the trick is so easy that you immediately know how it is done, no amount of showmanship is going to fix that. Now, sure, if the actual performance shows a ton of skill, that part can make it entertaining. And you can always turn it into a comedy act, and that can work. But a simple to perform trick that you could do at home, that you can figure out well before the reveal? Yeah, that’s rather underwhelming.

That said, my current stance on Brown actually was inspired by a different trick I saw around the same time. He had some people design some sort of ad or something, while saying he would predict the ad, leaving his prediction in an envelope on the table. He left the room while they were discussing it, of course. Then he came back and wowed them.

That in and of itself is just a kind lame trick. You know he had some way to watch them, and that he was able sneak his “prediction” into the envelope before the reveal. And to be fair, that’s what he told the audience he had done. However, what he told the people doing the trick was that he had used a bunch of subliminal messaging on the ride over, to get them thinking in a certain way.

That was when I realized “Oh. He has no problem lying about how he performs the tricks.” So I got suspicious the had lied about other reveals. I started looking into it online, and found that he had. And that was when the bubble burst. If he’s willing to lie about how he does the tricks, there’s no reason to believe him when he says things like he didn’t have any stooges or actors or didn’t use any camera tricks.

And then, well, there’s that Captain D video I linked above, showing a clear camera trick, followed by him claiming a false reason for why it happened, and flat out saying there were “no camera tricks.”

That’s why I don’t think he’s a very good magician, as I once told @ianzin before. I think a good magician would want to make sure no one thought he was using such disappointing “cheats.” It’s why I assume that all of his tricks are well known tricks that are dressed up. The one trick I wondered about, where he apparently used subliminal messaging to make everyone in a mall stop and hold up their hand? It has no allure for me now.

I think that sort of thing completely ruins everything. Not revealing tricks, but finding out that the magician has no integrity, and doesn’t adhere to the rule that you only directly lie during the patter. Once you lose that trust, the whole thing falls apart.

It’s why I very much like Penn and Teller.

Sounds similar to a friend of mine in high school with a FIDE rating in the upper 1800s beating Bobby Fischer in his prime. Fischer was playing 49 other people at the time but my friend was the only victor.

He said he figured most of the other players were thinking, OMG, it’s Bobby Fischer! and playing a conservative game. He decided to go the other route and played a recklessly aggressive game so Fischer, having only a few seconds to analyze, was playing 49 similar games and this one outlier.

Sorry, itt wasn’t really the same - Derren got us players to make the actual moves and his skill was remembering hundreds of moves over several hours.

Your friend did very well to beat Fischer!
However I don’t think his choice of play made much difference.
I am surprised that Fischer agreed to play so many opponents because:

  • it’s a lot of walking and bending over
  • it takes a long time
  • the opponents have more time to avoid blunders

As I said, we weren’t paid and although we did indeed instantly recognise the scenario, we were happy that:

  • we were going to be on TV :sunglasses:
  • it was great publicity for chess
  • Derren exhibited a fantastic feat of memory with no mistakes at all :nerd_face:

Not to mention, sleight of hand is a skill, that takes practice and agility. I read about this in, of all places, a Star Trek novel: a traveling circus hitching a ride on the Enterprise does a show for a visiting Klingon envoy. He’s outraged and horrified that to be exposed to a “sorceress” - the troupe’s illusionist. To placate him, Kirk convinces the magician to take the envoy back stage and show him how she did one of her tricks. He comes out saying that it’s obvious, and simple, and anyone could do it. The magician complains to Kirk that it’s not simple, it’s not obvious, and that that it took her years to learn how to make it look easy, and the Klingon’s reaction is exactly why she doesn’t explain her magic.

For all this was in a science fiction story, it sounded very real. Good magic doesn’t happen by, well, magic.

Penn Gillette said something about how the reason people didn’t guess how tricks were done is that nobody could believe that anyone would waste so much time and energy in preparation to do something so incredibly trivial. Wish I could find the exact quote; it was great, and is something I try to explain to my kids in magic club.

@glee, are you certain that it was a feat of memory? I mean, we know that Darren Brown is willing to engage in trickery to put on a show… How do you know that he wasn’t using some sort of trickery to access memory aids of some sort? A hidden camera in his lapel, with an accomplice backstage keeping track of everything on paper, and feeding him the moves back via radio earpiece, maybe? And while he was at it, a computer to beat the ninth player. But since you “knew how the trick was done”, you didn’t even bother looking for any of that.

Was it this?

“You will be fooled by a trick if it involves more time, money and practice than you (or any other sane onlooker) would be willing to invest. My partner, Penn, and I once produced 500 live cockroaches from a top hat on the desk of talk-show host David Letterman. To prepare this took weeks. We hired an entomologist who provided slow-moving, camera-friendly cockroaches (the kind from under your stove don’t hang around for close-ups) and taught us to pick the bugs up without screaming like preadolescent girls. Then we built a secret compartment out of foam-core (one of the few materials cockroaches can’t cling to) and worked out a devious routine for sneaking the compartment into the hat. More trouble than the trick was worth? To you, probably. But not to magicians.”

That’s a fabulous article, and I may use it for my club–but it’s not what I’m thinking of. I think it was on a podcast or the This American Life episode about magic or something like that. In any case, thanks for the link!

“Enterprise: The First Adventure” by Vonda McIntyre?

One of the classic witty posters on this board, I can’t remember which one, had a magic trick where he would appear to pull a coin out of his nose. It always amazed his nieces and nephews, but the secret to how he did the trick was that… he really was pulling a coin out of his nose. And one time it got stuck.

Well I suppose I assumed that since there was a ‘mechanical’ way to perform the trick, then that was how it was done.
I agree that the 9th player was beaten by remote moves being fed to Derren (probably the strong player mentioned in the credits using a computer to check everything.)
However the clincher for me is that if Derren had continual access to a computer / Kasparov, he wouldn’t have needed to arrange the studio set to play ‘mirror’ chess!

On Penn and Teller’s excellent ‘Fool Us’ TV series, one visiting magician held up a pack of cards and let them fall on a continuous stream. He then grabbed a card (or a few cards - I can’t remember exactly) - which was the chosen card.
Penn and Teller were initially baffled - then Penn said “The only way to do this trick is to have practised the ‘fall and grab’ literally thousands of times!” :nerd_face:
And that was indeed the method - it took months of practice. :open_mouth:

I feel fortunate to have seen Penn and Teller before they were famous at their “Asparagus Show” in a tiny theater in San Francisco. Two highlights were Teller doing the East Indian Needle Trick at a distance of five feet.

The other was Penn’s introduction to one of the big stage tricks. He says at one point, “As the audience, your job is simple. It is—”

The lights at the back end of the center aisle go up bright and a guy in a gorilla suit is standing there, bashing two cymbals for several seconds.

“—never take your eyes off of this stage!”

…mayyyybe? I mean, this was thirty years ago, when I was reading my way through a stack of my buddy’s Star Trek novels. The only one I really remember was How Much For Just The Planet, because it was A) funny, and 2) had a stealth cameo from the Brigadier and Sergeant Benton from Doctor Who.