# Menu expansion at fast food restaurants **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 26, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005 "2015-03-26T02:52:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/1 "2015-03-26T02:52:13Z")
This thread was prompted by a new Domino’s TV ad, in which I was informed that it is no longer “Domino’s Pizza,” it is just “Domino’s,” because they have _soooo_ much more to offer than just pizza now (at which point I was treated to a visual display of their many varied menu options). When I was a kid, I remember the menu at McDonald’s being pretty simple. You could get a regular hamburger (with or without cheese). Or a Big Mac. Or a Fish sandwich if you were feeling adventurous. And…that was about it for entrees, as I recall. You look at a McDonald’s menu now, and there are dozens of menu items available for lunch and dinner. And it offers a similarly wide range of breakfast foods now. This sort of gradual menu expansion seems to happen at all fast food chains over time, which leads me to wonder a couple of things: 1. How/why does this happen? Is it the result of generations of pencil-pushers at corporate HQ feeling compelled to prove their worth with bold new menu ideas? Are these restaurants taking suggestion boxes or customer whining about limited menus a little too much to heart? Or what? What drives these changes? 2. How annoying is it to work at one of these places now and have to master so many different menu items? It seems to me wrong-headed for every fast food restaurant to try to be all things to all people. (Taco Bell now offers a “biscuit taco” for breakfast, for pity’s sake.) I would think a better approach would be to do one thing but do it very well. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/2 "2015-03-26T02:59:44Z")
When we were kids, McDonalds pretty much owned the market. There were smaller, regional chains, but McDonalds still had “Over X Million Served.” Fast forward. More chains offer more choices. People get tired of stopping at McDonalds for lunch and decide to try Burger King, or Roy Rogers, or Chicken Delight. So the numbers crunchers at McDonalds figure out that they can grill chicken patties as easily as hamburgers and get the “tired of hamburgers, how about chicken” crowd. Then Burger King follows suit and McDonalds has to come up with something else, like breakfast. Then Hardees comes up with a breakfast item, so now everyone needs to come up with a salad item. On and on _ad infinitum_. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/3 "2015-03-26T03:12:29Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > It seems to me wrong-headed for every fast food restaurant to try to be all things to all people. (Taco Bell now offers a “biscuit taco” for breakfast, for pity’s sake.) I would think a better approach would be to do one thing but do it very well. [Olive Garden now sells hamburgers](http://www.eater.com/2013/12/2/6320991/olive-garden-adds-burgers-and-fries-to-its-menu). It’s all about staying in business by dropping to the LCD\*. \*Lowest Common Denominator ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/4 "2015-03-26T03:18:09Z")
Yeah, but is anybody really saying, “I’m going to Olive Garden for a hamburger”? Or more to the point, “I’m not going to Olive Garden because the don’t have hamburgers”? Seems to me that if people go to Olive Garden, it’s because they want Italian food. No? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/5 "2015-03-26T03:23:03Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. How/why does this happen? Is it the result of generations of pencil-pushers at corporate HQ feeling compelled to prove their worth with bold new menu ideas? Are these restaurants taking suggestion boxes or customer whining about limited menus a little too much to heart? Or what? What drives these changes? “If we offer more things, we can sell more things!” “Sell ALL THE THINGS!” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/6 "2015-03-26T03:23:41Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Seems to me that if people go to Olive Garden, it’s because they want Italian food. No? No. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/7 "2015-03-26T03:28:30Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > “If we offer more things, we can sell more things!” > > “Sell ALL THE THINGS!” But wouldn’t it get expensive trying to keep so many different menu items available? ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/8 "2015-03-26T03:46:59Z")
I think it is interesting that two of the chains that always are at the top of any burger poll… In 'n Out, and Five Guys have probably two of the simplest menus out there. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/9 "2015-03-26T04:01:53Z")
Looks like maybe McDonald’s is beginning to re-think: [McDonald’s is simplifying its menu.](http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/12/16/at-long-last-mcdonalds-is-simplifying-its-menu.aspx) > [@](#): > > The rising wait times and worsening customer service at McDonald’s have been well-documented. As McDonald’s released more complex menu offerings, it suffered in its ability to complete orders in a timely manner. As fast-food industry publication QSR stated in its Drive-Thru Performance Study last year, McDonald’s had sunk to its slowest average speed of service in the history of the survey, at just over three minutes. The “speed of service” issue is yet another problem with a vast menu, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/10 "2015-03-26T04:21:12Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > But wouldn’t it get expensive trying to keep so many different menu items available? eh, I wasn’t saying that it _works,_ only that it’s what I guess is the mentality which drives it. > [@Spud](#): > > I think it is interesting that two of the chains that always are at the top of any burger poll… In 'n Out, and Five Guys have probably two of the simplest menus out there. never been to Five Guys, but IMO In-N-Out is massively, massively overrated. Their burgers are decent (but still a fast-food burger) and their fries are garbage. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/11 "2015-03-26T04:24:11Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Yeah, but is anybody really saying, “I’m going to Olive Garden for a hamburger”? Probably not. But if it’s you and three other people, one of them might drop their objection to Olive Garden based on “Well, I can always get a burger” when they didn’t want pasta. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/12 "2015-03-26T04:35:28Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > never been to Five Guys, but IMO In-N-Out is massively, massively overrated. Their burgers are decent (but still a fast-food burger) **and their fries are garbage.** It’s your fault you took the time to return to your seat before starting on the fries. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/13 "2015-03-26T04:40:27Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > It’s your fault you took the time to return to your seat before starting on the fries. 😃 yeah, whatever. you can’t cook fries in a single step. either they’re underdone and mushy, or overcooked and greasy. look, In-n-Out is a fast food joint. It ain’t great food, no matter how much you west coast types want to deify it. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/14 "2015-03-26T04:44:06Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > yeah, whatever. you can’t cook fries in a single step. either they’re underdone and mushy, or overcooked and greasy. look, In-n-Out is a fast food joint. It ain’t great food, no matter how much you west coast types want to deify it. Ash for them crispy. I actually love In n Out Fries, and the burgers are great too. Though Shake Shack is still king ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/15 "2015-03-26T04:48:20Z")
We’ve lost the plot. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/16 "2015-03-26T04:50:30Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Ash for them crispy. no. why? 1. I don’t live out west, so there are no In-n-outs near me 2. “Crispy” as it refers to fries cooked in one step means “greasy and overcooked.” 3. after being underwhelmed multiple times by In-n-out’s offerings, I’ve no real desire to seek them out again. It’s just a _fast food burger._ ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/17 "2015-03-26T06:38:38Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Yeah, but is anybody really saying, “I’m going to Olive Garden for a hamburger”? > > Or more to the point, “I’m not going to Olive Garden because the don’t have hamburgers”? > > Seems to me that if people go to Olive Garden, it’s because they want Italian food. No? I wasn’t aware that you could get Italian food at Olive Garden, either. When I lived in the St. Louis region, I went to a Five Guys a couple times, and I think it’s called that because it would take five guys to eat one of those meals. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/18 "2015-03-26T06:40:54Z")
i think the only interesting relevance of In-n-Out to this thread is that it was founded at almost the exact same time and place as McDonald’s, and yet followed a much different pattern of growth (both economically and menu-wise). They are somewhat famous for their ‘hidden’/off-menu offerings, but they’ve maintained a simplicity in presentation that has allowed them to remain in business and earn them a reputation for quality. On the other hand, McDonald’s is a massively more popular and well-known brand. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/19 "2015-03-26T06:41:30Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > 1. “Crispy” as it refers to fries cooked in one step means “greasy and overcooked.” \* Not at In n Out in my experience > [@jz78817](#): > > It’s just a _fast food burger._ We get it–you don’t dig it. Cool. Many do. It’s not a big deal ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/20 "2015-03-26T06:57:44Z")
I thought it was a stroke of genius for McDonald’s to break into the higher-end coffee market. They already had a ton of prime locations. The additional space needed at each location for the coffee-related equipment and storage is probably small compared to the extra profits they can earn. Granted, I haven’t tried any of their coffee offerings, but it’s just because I haven’t gotten around to it; I’ve heard that they’re quite good by the standards of what various coffee chains sell. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005.md?page=2)