# Menu expansion at fast food restaurants **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 26, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005 "2015-03-26T02:52:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Tread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tread)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/41 "2015-03-26T16:52:15Z")
> [@spoke](#): > > you look at a mcdonald’s menu now, and there are dozens of menu items available for lunch and dinner. And it offers a similarly wide range of breakfast foods now. > > This sort of gradual menu expansion seems to happen at all fast food chains over time, which leads me to wonder a couple of things: > > 1. how annoying is it to work at one of these places now and \*\*\*have to master \*\*\*so many different menu items? > . > > Thoughts? bwahahahahahah ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/42 "2015-03-26T16:56:03Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I have a rule when it comes to pizza, and it’s served me well so far: I never buy pizza from a place that makes anything other than pizza. Pizza requires specialization. It can’t be just another thing on the menu, it has to be the \*only \*thing on the menu. I agree with this and would add that there is a certain “Jack of all trades, master of none” aspect to it. Diversify too much and you end up with a whole lot of mediocre items. Also, fast food places tend to have their own pervasive \funk\ aroma. McDonald’s food, no matter what you order, has a certain McDonaldy taste that is present in everything. I can’t imagine eating a salad from there (though I know lots of people do). Who want a pizza with that underlying fried food taste? Every time I see a commercial for Papa John’s and their pan cookie I picture someone sticking a blob of cookie dough in one of the deep dish pizza pans and letting it bake in the old pizza grease. Bleccccch. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/43 "2015-03-26T17:02:40Z")
> [@amaguri](#): > > Sometimes it’s weird even walking through a grocery store nowadays. We survived many years with just one type of Oreo, now there are at least a dozen varieties. Same for wheat thins, same for m&ms, varieties of coke, even varieties of milk (dairy and otherwise). Hadn’t occurred to me, but yes, that’s another example of the same phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/44 "2015-03-26T17:14:02Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > More importantly, with such a big menu, why isn’t the mcrib on it? I read something where the McRib patties are made from pork trimmings, which are only seasonally-available or something. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/45 "2015-03-26T17:19:42Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I have a rule when it comes to pizza, and it’s served me well so far: I never buy pizza from a place that makes anything other than pizza. I just wanted to join the **Alessan** Pile-On. Your rule sucks or Israel sucks or both. All of my favorite pizza places in the Philadelphia area also happen to make some of the best hoagies you can get. They also make excellent Cheesesteaks, maybe not the absolute best compared to specialty Cheesesteak places but excellent nonetheless. Other places in the Northeast U.S. that have excellent pizza also have excellent full menu Italian food offerings. The Northeast U.S. probably even has better Jewish food than Israel. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/46 "2015-03-26T17:25:13Z")
> [@Tread](#): > > bwahahahahahah Would you like to share with the rest of the class? On topic, I’ve often wondered how this menu “spread” affects drive-thru times. I know that’s important in fast food, so I bet that really screws with how quick they can be when it takes your average customer forever just to find anything they’re interested in amongst a sea of a billion items. On the other hand, I’m probably the target audience for this kind of stuff. I love to try different crap, especially with weird ingredients. I’m sorry. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/47 "2015-03-26T17:38:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by jz78817 View Post > yeah, whatever. you can’t cook fries in a single step. either they’re underdone and mushy, or overcooked and greasy. look, In-n-Out is a fast food joint. It ain’t great food, no matter how much you west coast types want to deify it. I’ve never actually cooked fries, but I assumed there was only one step: put fries in hot oil until cooked. What are the other steps? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/48 "2015-03-26T17:39:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Alessan > I have a rule when it comes to pizza, and it’s served me well so far: I never buy pizza from a place that makes anything other than pizza. I’ve had excellent “flat bread pizza” is several relatively high end general menu restaurants. Granted, it’s not traditional pizza, but it can be quite good. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/49 "2015-03-26T18:09:54Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I read something where the McRib patties are made from pork trimmings, which are only seasonally-available or something. Supposedly it’s made from pork shoulder, but that its seasonal appearances correspond pretty closely with low points in the pork price. I don’t know if that means that McDonald’s waits for pork to be cheap, or if the introduction of the McRib causes pork prices to rise by itself though, and that’s why it looks like it’s always introduced in cheap pork times. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/50 "2015-03-26T18:19:33Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’ve never actually cooked fries, but I assumed there was only one step: put fries in hot oil until cooked. What are the other steps? The traditional method is to parcook them in a slightly lower temperature oil (usually around 325F), then finish them off in a hotter oil (375-400F). In N Out fries are, indeed, a bit lackluster. Even ordering them well done doesn’t help. I don’t think it has that much to do with frying and double frying. I’ve had great single-fried potatoes. It’s just, I dunno, maybe the potatoes they use are just bland, or something. That said, I just skip the fries there, anyway. I go there for the what is to my tastes, my favorite burger. Fortunately for my waistline, I live hundreds of miles from the nearest one. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/51 "2015-03-26T19:56:28Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > The traditional method is to parcook them in a slightly lower temperature oil (usually around 325F), then finish them off in a hotter oil (375-400F). The issue tends to be that if you just fry them single-stage oil at a temp hot enough to make the outside crispy, you end up with either perfectly crisp outsides and raw innards, or overcooked/burnt outsides and cooked innards. If you cook them first in the 300-325 oil, you effectively cook the potatoes, and then set up the outsides in a sort of gelatinized layer that later, when you fry them the second time, crisps up and browns very nicely. Here’s an article describing it in a lot more detail: > **[Burger Recipes](https://www.seriouseats.com/burger-recipes-5117823)** > > Smashed burgers, cheeseburgers, turkey burgers, veggie burgers, we're pretty much crazy about all burgers. Get recipes for all of these burgers and more. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/52 "2015-03-26T20:18:09Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > No. 😃 Fine. People go to Olive Garden for Italian-_ **ish** _ food. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/53 "2015-03-26T20:28:53Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Fine. People go to Olive Garden for Italian-_ **ish** _ food. 😃 [Insert relevant Mad TV sketch here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKZS4Jn6gRM) ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/54 "2015-03-26T20:35:51Z")
Olive Garden is as authentic Italian as my dog is an authentic Jew (hint: Daisy doesn’t eat Kosher Kibbles & Bits, or Snausages®). ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/55 "2015-03-26T20:47:08Z")
Point is, what people _don’t_ go there for is hamburgers. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/56 "2015-03-26T21:06:28Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > Personally, I’m not a fan of the over-sized menus. I’d rather they do it the way Wendy’s used to do it back in the day where you ordered the basic burger - single, double, or triple - and then asked for whatever additional items you wanted a la carte. Kept the menu simple, yet still allowed for customization. > . Really works for me. I seem to remember you had to specify which condiments as well, it was not automatically catsup, mustard, pickle. I am a proponent of minimalism - I don’t want a burger with truffle catsup, a slice of foie fras, japanese black footed pig bacon hand cured by some monk in Timbuktu. Give me a good half pound patty, grill it to medium, good classic bun, catsup, slice of pickle, whole leaf lettuce and a slice of tomato as long as it is not one of those plastic hothouse tomatoes. Maybe seasoned with a sprinnkle of salt and pepper. > [@Procrustus](#): > > I’ve never actually cooked fries, but I assumed there was only one step: put fries in hot oil until cooked. What are the other steps? Most commercial fries are precooked slightly - so all they are really doing is thawing and finish frying. Makes for a soft fluffy interior and a crispy outside. I will say that I have tried 5 guys, in and out and the ones we have here in CT [McD, Wendys and Burger King] and I really am not thrilled with any of their fries but I really did like McDs back when they used whatever it was before they went vegan and healthy. I have a sensitivity to canola oil that gets used in most commercial salad dressings and fry oil blends at fastfood places so it really limits what I can eat. On road trips we take a cooler and sandwich makings, and our own salad dressing. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/57 "2015-03-26T21:13:20Z")
The best fast food fries I’ve ever had are the one’s at Dick’s in Seattle. Which is surprising considering that their burgers are sub-McDonald’s in quality. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/58 "2015-03-26T21:38:30Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Point is, what people _don’t_ go there for is hamburgers. The hamburgers are on the menu for when little Billy looks his mom square in the eye and says in a low whisper, _“if you make me eat this crappy Italian food, I’m putting Tigger in the microwave when we get home.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/59 "2015-03-26T21:40:40Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The best fast food fries I’ve ever had are the one’s at Dick’s in Seattle. > > Which is surprising considering that their burgers are sub-McDonald’s in quality. That just means you weren’t intoxicated enough 😉 Their burgers are heavenly at 1:50am on a Friday/Sat night ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/60 "2015-03-26T21:50:23Z")
Someone posted a mid-1970s picture of a McDonald’s menu on Facebook recently and I thought it was interesting enough to download. It was so short I can retype it here: ```auto 1/4 Pounder w/cheese - .70 1/4 Pounder - .60 Big Mac - .65 Filet-O-Fish - .48 Cheeseburger - .33 Hamburger - .28 Large Order Fries - .46 French Fries - .26 Hot Apple Pie - .26 Milk - .20 Coffee - .15 Hot Chocolate - .15 Shakes (Chocolate Strawberry Vanilla Coffee) - .35 Coca Cola Rootbeer Orangeade - .15 and .20 Triple Ripple Ice Cream Cone - .20 ``` That’s it. No combo meals, not a single item over a dollar. No chicken, salads… this must have even been before Happy Meals. Coffee shakes surprised me, though. I could go for one of those right now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005.md?page=4)