# Menu expansion at fast food restaurants **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 26, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005 "2015-03-26T02:52:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/61 "2015-03-26T22:04:19Z")
Yes, that list looks very familiar. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/62 "2015-03-26T22:04:50Z")
It seems to me that one reason a fast food restaurant adds new menu items is that it gives them something to advertise. They can run commercials that say “Come in and try our new …” instead of “Come in and have the same crap we’ve been serving for the past two decades.” And I’ll admit that, on me, these kinds of ads do sometimes work: I do sometimes go to a fast food place I wouldn’t otherwise go to just to try the new thing they’re offering. ---
**Author:** ![stegon66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@stegon66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stegon66)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/63 "2015-03-26T22:05:27Z")
> [@](#): > > The “speed of service” issue is yet another problem with a vast menu, I guess. I can vouch for this, having worked in a restaurant for many years. Complicated menu + obsession with keeping labor low + low wages (meaning you’re not going to get the best people) means a clusterfuck. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/64 "2015-03-26T22:06:12Z")
I have this issue with Tim Horton’s in addition to what has been talked about above. I’m in Timmys for a coffee and a doughnut, maybe a bowl of soup and a sandwich. I most certainly am not there for for effin’ lasagna or bacon and eggs. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/65 "2015-03-26T22:18:16Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > The hamburgers are on the menu for when little Billy looks his mom square in the eye and says in a low whisper, _“if you make me eat this crappy Italian food, I’m putting Tigger in the microwave when we get home.”_ Or, to put it in more simple terms: **Dad:** _Hey gang; let’s go out for dinner tonight!_ **Mom:** _Great Idea, honey, how about we get Italian? The Olive Garden’s just down the road!_ **Daughter Sally:** _Gee, that’s swell mom and dad, I’m raring to go! Let’s go put some revenue in Olive Garden’s maw!_ **Little Billy:** _Screw that; if you make me eat Italian, the cat gets it, capish?._ **Chief Marketing Officer for Olive Garden** (probably not Roman Catholic, but a Wasp): \*Hold on there, Billy boy, how’d you like something All American to eat? Huh? Like a hamburger! Get your clueless family in the station wagon and c’mon down to the Garden, we’ll even through in some fries for ya, son. \* ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/66 "2015-03-26T22:59:13Z")
Oh, I’m sure that’s the “thinking.” I’m also sure there’s not a kid out there who doesn’t like spaghetti. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/67 "2015-03-27T02:05:54Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Oh, I’m sure that’s the “thinking.” I’m also sure there’s not a kid out there who doesn’t like spaghetti. Well, sir, I wouldn’t bet too heavily on that assumption if I were you. As a wee lad, I _hated_ spaghetti. For one thing, I couldn’t pronounce it. _”B’sketti”_ was as close as I could get. But, more importantly, I, along with every other non-communist kid in the world, hated tomatoes, including anything made _from_ tomatoes, including tomato sauce (I, of course, made an exception for ketchup, because, y’know…who doesn’t like ketchup?). The only type of pasta I would eat as a child was [“wagon wheel pasta”](http://everybodylikessandwiches.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/mac.jpg), smothered in salt and butter…lots and lots of butter. No tomato sauce (aka _Satan’s blood_), just butter. If I was a good boy (which I nearly always was), I’d be rewarded with even more butter dolloped onto my wagon wheels. Life was good for boys that were good. Which brings me to a very serious question worthy of its own thread: \*where the hell did my wagon wheels go? \* Wagon wheel pasta (aka _“wheels”_) is, without a doubt, the most _perfect_ pasta shape known to mankind. Wheels are the perfect shape and size for negotiating into ones mouth, and incredibly, being able to do so with only one hand (none of this fork and spoon twirling nonsense). But, most importantly, _“wheels”_ are easily _“caught”_ by stabbing the wagon wheel spokes with the tines of your fork. Why the hell torture yourself trying to spin wiggly spaghetti, or linguini, or fettuccini onto your fork; or stab shells, or tubes, or whatever other ghastly shape there is in the vast world of pasta…when there are perfectly shaped wagon wheels available? It defies logic. A world with no wagon wheel pasta in it is an abomination of nature. This type of mass pastacide is the type of semolina extermination only someone like Hitler would engage in. Yes, I said _Hitler_…or perhaps _Attila_, or maybe _Vlad, the Impaler_ (although, I’m sure even Vlad would enjoy impaling wagon wheel pasta with his pikes for lunch). I used to eat wagon wheel pasta with salt and butter very often as a child. It was my comfort food. When I turned (fighting and screaming) into an adult, I didn’t eat “wheels” as often, maybe once or twice a decade, when I was sick, with the flu or black plague. But, I was always assured that all was well in the world when I walked past the pasta section of the grocery store and saw my cherished wagon wheel pasta sitting, seductively, on the second shelf from the bottom, next to the spiral pasta (what kind of \*idiot \*likes spiral pasta?). And then, one day, I didn’t see my wagon wheel pasta any more. Not in the grocery store I normally shop at, nor the 13 other grocery stores I scoped out in a desperate attempt to find my beloved wheels. Oh, sure, I can still find them for sale from Amazon. com, but, c’mon, do you really trust Amazon to deliver authentic wheels? Answer: nope. Question 1: Why did wagon wheels disappear from the shelves of my grocery store? Question 2: Do you have wagon wheels for sale at your grocery store? Question 3: If you have wagon wheel pasta at your grocery store, would you be willing to trade a few boxes of it for, I dunno, a dog and a guinea pig? How about a 10 year old girl who can do heavy lifting? ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/68 "2015-03-27T02:20:51Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Yeah, but is anybody really saying, “I’m going to Olive Garden for a hamburger”? > > Or more to the point, “I’m not going to Olive Garden because the don’t have hamburgers”? > > Seems to me that if people go to Olive Garden, it’s because they want Italian food. No? I’m not the most social person or a fan of chain restaurants, but even I have gone to a restaurant with family and/or friends a few times in my life. If my father-in-law or my mom or whoever invites me and my kids to the Olive Garden or Cracker Barrel or wherever, it might help if they have options. My daughter doesn’t eat pizza but sometimes can’t avoid pizza joints for certain things- So it helps if she can order chicken tenders or whatever. As far as the OP goes, and this has been discussed here frequently recently, McDonalds has been in the process of cutting back their menu. Menu expansion was one of the things blamed for their recent struggles. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/69 "2015-03-27T02:21:21Z")
[Amazon](http://www.amazon.com/DaVinci-Pasta-Short-Wagon-Wheels/dp/B00186ZO42) is your friend, yo. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/70 "2015-03-27T02:24:45Z")
> [@swampspruce](#): > > I have this issue with Tim Horton’s in addition to what has been talked about above. > I’m in Timmys for a coffee and a doughnut, maybe a bowl of soup and a sandwich. I most certainly am not there for for effin’ lasagna or bacon and eggs. Yet I don’t consider any of those dessert pastry food things to be breakfast in any sense. My wife/kids do. So, when my kids ask for donuts I like to be able to get some sort of egg sandwich. (I would consider the soup and sandwich to be more odd in a donut place. Except for, you know, egg sandwiches). ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/71 "2015-03-27T02:27:49Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I am a proponent of minimalism - I don’t want a burger with truffle catsup, a slice of foie fras, japanese black footed pig bacon hand cured by some monk in Timbuktu. Give me a good half pound patty, grill it to medium, good classic bun, catsup, slice of pickle, whole leaf lettuce and a slice of tomato as long as it is not one of those plastic hothouse tomatoes. Maybe seasoned with a sprinnkle of salt and pepper. A 1/2 lb patty is pretty exotic for a fast food burger. I can’t think of any. Of course, medium isn’t “allowed” either. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/72 "2015-03-27T02:29:37Z")
To add to the fries debate: I cook mine 3 times. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/73 "2015-03-27T03:29:15Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > Question 1: Why did wagon wheels disappear from the shelves of my grocery store? They’ve been taken over by Hitler, Attila, and Vlad, Inc? > [@](#): > > Question 2: Do you have wagon wheels for sale at your grocery store? Yes. I have a box in my cupboard right now. In fact, I used some in the minestrone I made over last weekend. (I share your distaste for shell pasta. The damn things always end up ‘nesting’ like limpets, which leaves the innermost surfaces uncooked. Yuck. > [@](#): > > Question 3: If you have wagon wheel pasta at your grocery store, would you be willing to trade a few boxes of it for, I dunno, a dog and a guinea pig? How about a 10 year old girl who can do heavy lifting? Nope. You got a parakeet maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/74 "2015-03-27T04:14:01Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > “If we offer more things, we can sell more things!” > > “Sell ALL THE THINGS!” There was a decrepit looking restaurant somewhere in the middle of the country that prided itself on being able to make any dish a customer could order on demand. They were so sure of that fact that they made $100 guarantee that, if you ordered something they couldn’t make, you got the cash handed to you personally by the manager. One day, a feisty old couple travelling the country by RV stopped by and noticed the sign. They thought about it for a while and the husband ordered two dozen oysters on the half shell as an appetizer even though there was no seafood on the menu. The waitress curled her eyebrows and the couple felt victory was at hand until she asked them to clarify their order. Their are many different types of raw oysters and they had them all. Sure enough, she brought out a sampler platter a few minutes later for them to try and followed it up with their full order once they knew what they really wanted. The couple was both astonished and irritated because two dozen raw oysters are not cheap so they decided to double down on the entree order. The husband ordered a water buffalo steak cooked perfectly medium rare and the wife ordered an elephant ear on a bun. They waited and waited until they saw the waitress getting frantic. Finally, the manager came over and handed them a $100 bill. They exclaimed “Hah, I knew you didn’t have water buffalo steak or elephant ears”. The manger replied, “No, it sin’t that. We just ran out of buns”. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/75 "2015-03-27T05:11:09Z")
**Shag** , baby, that reminds me of a rule I developed and imposed on myself after 5 unfortunate experiences _(hey, some of us are slow learners)_ and that is: do not order raw oysters from any eating establishment that advertises\* “fresh caught seafood”\* if they are in a podunk nowhere-burg with no airport, rail line or major highway, and are more than 1000 miles from any sea. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/76 "2015-03-27T11:29:54Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > I just wanted to join the **Alessan** Pile-On. > Your rule sucks or Israel sucks or both. All of my favorite pizza places in the Philadelphia area also happen to make some of the best hoagies you can get. They also make excellent Cheesesteaks, maybe not the absolute best compared to specialty Cheesesteak places but excellent nonetheless. > > Other places in the Northeast U.S. that have excellent pizza also have excellent full menu Italian food offerings. I stand by what IO say I’ve eaten enough crappy pizza at “dairy” restaurants and buffets to come to the conclusion that to make pizza right, a place has to be first and foremost a pizza place. My rule may be a bit draconian, but it’s served me well so far (and besides, Israelis aren’t that big oon sandwiches that don’t involved pitas) > [@bienville](#): > > The Northeast U.S. probably even has better Jewish food than Israel. 😉 That’s probably true, because what American define as “Jewish food” - deli sandwiches, bagels and whatnot - is actually \*American \*Jewish food, born on Delancy Street, not the Polish _shtetle_. To an Israeli, Jewish food means falafel and burekas, not the Ruben. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/77 "2015-03-27T13:01:10Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The issue tends to be that if you just fry them single-stage oil at a temp hot enough to make the outside crispy, you end up with either perfectly crisp outsides and raw innards, or overcooked/burnt outsides and cooked innards. > > If you cook them first in the 300-325 oil, you effectively cook the potatoes, and then set up the outsides in a sort of gelatinized layer that later, when you fry them the second time, crisps up and browns very nicely. > > Here’s an article describing it in a lot more detail: > > [Burger Recipes](http://aht.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/01/the-burger-lab-why-double-fry-french-fries.html) Heh. I almost linked to that myself in my post. If you’re making a small serving of fries for yourself and maybe a friend or two, there’s a single fry trick that works really well. I believe I got this from Cook’s Illustrated. Take your freshly cut up spuds and put them into a pot of _cold_. Set it on medium high on the burner and pull when brown and crispy. They taste and feel very much like double fried fries. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/78 "2015-03-27T13:08:26Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Someone posted a mid-1970s picture of a McDonald’s menu on Facebook recently and I thought it was interesting enough to download. It was so short I can retype it here: > > ```auto > > 1/4 Pounder w/cheese - .70 > 1/4 Pounder - .60 > Big Mac - .65 > Filet-O-Fish - .48 > Cheeseburger - .33 > Hamburger - .28 > Large Order Fries - .46 > French Fries - .26 > Hot Apple Pie - .26 > Milk - .20 > Coffee - .15 > Hot Chocolate - .15 > Shakes (Chocolate Strawberry Vanilla Coffee) > - .35 > Coca Cola Rootbeer Orangeade > - .15 and .20 > Triple Ripple Ice Cream Cone > - .20 > > ``` > > That’s it. No combo meals, not a single item over a dollar. No chicken, salads… this must have even been before Happy Meals. Coffee shakes surprised me, though. I could go for one of those right now. Interesting. FWIW $0.70 in 1975 is worth $3.05 now which means Quarter Pounders (which are apparently $3.79 now according to Google) only rose a little faster than inflation. I also would love a Coffee Shake. I think they do sell a Coffee ice cream type drink which is probably almost the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/79 "2015-03-27T13:11:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Take your freshly cut up spuds and put them into a pot of cold. That should read “into a pot of cold oil.” ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005/80 "2015-03-27T13:49:27Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Heh. I almost linked to that myself in my post. If you’re making a small serving of fries for yourself and maybe a friend or two, there’s a single fry trick that works really well. I believe I got this from Cook’s Illustrated. Take your freshly cut up spuds and put them into a pot of _cold_. Set it on medium high on the burner and pull when brown and crispy. They taste and feel very much like double fried fries. Never would have thought of that, but it sounds like it would work really well! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/menu-expansion-at-fast-food-restaurants/716005.md?page=5)