No. I’m not worried about causing **more than ** $300,000 worth of damage to his property. And, yes, I know what subrogation is. And IRL,
Insurance companies are not likely to subrograte against an individual without assets who carried a reasonable amount of insurance. The cost benefit analysis doesn’t bear out the practice.
My point wasn’t that Mr. Bigshot doesn’t deserve to be compensated for his loss. My point was rather than worry about some ridiculous (and improbable) loss (damage to a “solid gold hummer”), pick coverage that a reasonable person could assume would cover most of the likely senarios.
$50,000 wouldn’t pay for a week’s worth of hospital expenses where I live.
Er, you put yourself at financial risk when you hurtle in your multi-thousand dollar hunk of plastic and metal at 70 miles per hour on the highway. Driving is an inherently dangerous undertaking in which accidents do happen. As others have said, there is no way to reasonably prepare for potential monetary damage to others; how the heck would insurance companies calculate those risks in a reasonable way? It’d be crazy.
-Eonwe, who pays $180 a month for minimum coverage on his 1999, 100,000 mile Toyota.
Listen, driving a car is a privilege, not a right. If you can’t afford to do it responsibly, then the responsible thing is to not do it at all. Get a scooter–they tend to do less damage to other people; walk, ride the bus, hail a cab, get a bicycle–I hear China has a few. preach preach preach
But don’t tell me that it’s in any way ethical that I need to protect myself and my family from your being a cheap bastard and buying an outdated legal relic just because it puts you in compliance with a law created and passed by a government devoid of the necessary spine to preotect its own consituency.
If you can’t afford to do it safely and responsibly, don’t do it.
Pixisis, If that person ends up in the hospital, I have to think you’re getting sued anyway. We’re in a litigous society, and $20k vs. $300k won’t matter…there will be a suit for >$1 million dropping on your doorstep.
Why you would report the agent for doing his job is beyond me. He looked at your assets, and recommended a coverage option. When you wanted more, he stated why he thoguht it was a bad idea.
You’re responsible for carrying insurance. Carry the minimum. When Inigo starts bitching, ask him why he wasn’t carrying extra disability, AD&D or Underinsured Motorist insurance. You are not my responsibility.
So…then you’re ok with busting someone up, washing your hands with a check for $25k knowing full well it won’t begin to pay for the real damage you’ve caused? Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but if it’s true then just accept the fact that you’re an asshole and get on with your life. I’ve anticipated people not wanting to take responsibility for their own actions and have protected myself (at my own expense) accordingly.
I have the every day priviledge of seeing both parties cry when the insurance runs out, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people who max out their state minimum crap start calling me names when I close the checkbook and tell them the ball’s in their court for the rest.
You can add me to Airman Doors. I don’t have the money or resources to pay an armload in insurance. And I am another who probably wouldn’t have one if it wasn’t legally required to drive the damn thing.
I do it RIGHT already. I have been driving for 14 years and have never once been in an accident that was my fault. I’ve only been in one accident, actually, when an old man was making an illegal U-turn and plowed right into the side of MY car. I have never had a single speeding ticket. I don’t speed enough to warrant being pulled over! I have no points on my license and no bad history.
So I am doing it right already. And I refuse to pay all that money on the off chance I hit someone, one day. Hell no. I’ve got too many other things to worry about.
Low assets DOES mean low income, your standing as an insurance salesman takes away a lot of your credibility, and insurance companies bilk you anyway.
Add me to the list of people who will gladly increase my coverage as soon as Inigo pays for it. And don’t tell me to go stand in an intersection.
He didn’t just make a statement, he actively tried to talk me out of it, and didn’t accept my decision. I had to argue to get the coverage I wanted, which clearly is not excessive. (and didn’t cost all that much more)
And, agents have been sued for recommending limits that are too low.
Inigo, Patting yourself on the back for providing one million dollars wort of suit bait is a fine thing, but, I have to tell you, the billionaires of the world have much more to loose than a paltry million dollars. Your operation of a vehicle without sufficient insurance to cover the hundreds of millions in damages that Bill Gates might suffer is just proof that your posturing is a blatant misrepresentation of your moral laxity. For shame.
Inigo does not sell insurance. He is a Claims Adjuster. He has the unenviable task of dealing with upset people all the time, and telling a lot of them that they are SOL.
In the 18 of the last 20 years, the insurance industry as operated at an underwriting LOSS. The premium from policies they collect is not sufficient to pay their operating expenses and claims made. If it weren’t for their investment income, they would be belly up. In other words, they have a strong argument to charge you more.
Don’t get me wrong, I hate the idea of insurance companies as publically traded, keep the stock holders happy, for profit corporations. And I think that some of the salaries for top level executives are obscene (but that’s true for many industries).
I’m not a salesman, I’m a claims guy. I clean up the messes and dry the tears they cause by allowing people to delude themselves into thinking 25/50/10 is adequate just so they can hook the sale. My agenda is NOT to fatten the pockets of the insurance companies, it’s to keep people–like you and Doors, for instance–from incurring a lifetime of medical debt or unnecessary physical deformity when some other Bozo who’s a bit less careful behind the wheel smashes into you. As self-proclaimed low income types I would expect you to be sensitive to people taking your future in their own hands and not really giving a shit about you.
Triskadecamus you’ve shed light on an important distinction between what I’m harping about and what other folks want me to be harping about. Wealthy people–Gates, the solid gold Hummer guy, all of them–their lives are not as likely to be ruined in the same way that Doors’, ‘Mika’s, mine, persumably the vast majority of us here, would be. Injuries is injuries, money can’t make them go away but it is required to treat them. If Gates got killed when I ran a light, it’d be a tragic accident the same as if it had been Bobby Nobucks in Arkansas, but Gates’ family would not be left in financial ruin whereas Bobby’s could be. The strawman extreme examples being tossed around in here do not reflect reality. The reality is that most folks would realize dreadful hardship upon the loss, or partial loss, of a family member. If I turned Gates into a carrot, there are resources available to him to provide his care. If it happens to Bobby, there is nothing. By driving, I put Bobby and his family at risk–why should I think it’s ok to walk away from that responsibility?
I see. Your choice of an arbitrary number makes you a moral and responsible person, while someone elses choices of a different arbitrary number makes the irresponsible and immoral. I understand now.
You know what I do? I don’t drive like an asshole. I couls still be at fault for more than $25,000 worth of damages, but it’s not much more likely than getting hit by lightning. If I were, I would not avoid responsibility. What assets I do have, I’d lose. I’m sure my wages would be garnished after the judgement against me. My life would suck for a long time. So I do the sensible thing: I don’t drive like an asshole.
Which is the $28 you- as the Employee of a greedy bloodsucking inurance co- is trying to con us out of. Do you really beleive your own sales propaganda? :dubious: :rolleyes:
I have not been an accident that was my fault in 20 years. Other than a small claim on my Comprehensive, my Insurance policy has done nothing for me.
That’s just stupid and as indicative of an argumnet win as “Well fuck you, then!”
I’ve already pointed out that state minimum liability is inadequate for applications involving even moderate physical injury. Many major medical plans cap out at $1million lifetime benefit. That’s right, they quit paying after you’ve accumulated that much benefit. A million bucks then seems like a reasonable cap when considering the extent of damage one is likely to cause in a car wreck. Interms of income replacement, let’s say I deprive Bobby’s wife and their kids of a breadwinner–assuming he’s an average Bob that’s an income of $30k-$40k per year–the Million will cover that for the equivalent of 25 years. Nope, doesn’t bring him back from the grave or put him back to work, but it keeps a roof over their heads and food on their plates. But I guess WIC, welfare and section 8 housing would as well so I see your point too. Personally, I couldn’t live with myself if I knowingly turned someone’s life upside down that way, but maybe you could–but I’d call you an asshole if you were ok with it.
Boils down to doing what’s legal vs. doing what’s right. And deciding to risk fucking someone else’s life up simply because you don’t have anything of value is not right.
Some of you seem to be under the impression that being a careful and courteous driver somehow summons the protective hand of God to your car. It doesn’t. The vast majority of the people I talk to every day weren’t driving badly, they just made a brief error in judgement o found themselves in a no-win situation. Want examples?
So, yours is not an arbitrary choice? No possible circumstance could cause more than a million dollars in damage that was your fault?
I have not mentioned even if I have a car, although I do. I choose to pay the amount of insurance recommended to me by the state where I live, plus a small amount of additional liability recommended by my insurance company. I have no where near a million dollars in liability insurance.
I could accidentally cause millions of dollars in damages without the use of my car, by the way. I have no general liability insurance, other than a small rider to my renter’s insurance policy.
Tell me, do you have an additional policy covering your accidental acts outside of an automobile? No? Doesn’t that make you an irresponsible nitwit? No? Why not? In fact, your automobile policy would not cover all the damages you might cause if your driving made a tanker truck overturn on an interchange causing dozens of people to be maimed and crippled for life. At half a million in losses each, that would be huge tragedy for each of them, and you, you irresponsible git refuse to carry a billion dollars in liability! How do you sleep nights?
In fact, in the world of today, even a billion dollars is letting yourself off easy, you cheapskate!
Things must look very nice, from your moral high ground.
I didn’t say I’d relish busting up someone’s car/property/person. Having said that, you should remember that insurance is a pure risk/reward product. If I judge the risk of my causing damage to be less than the reward of having my extra income to invest/spend/fritter, then so be it. State minimums are in place so I can meet the legal definition of “insured”.
I am confident enough in my driving to not carry a huge amount of insurance I’ve deemed unnecessary. Are you expecting to hit someone, Inigo? Just say you saw a bad situation for someone and leave it at that.
I still don’t see what $1mil vs. $25k means in a litigous society. Without serious tort reform, you’re facing a civil suit anyway.
Inadequate for you. You clearly drive like an asshole.
You’ve already fucked their life up.
Not God, driving carefully brings only the protection of your own hands, and eyes, and foot and brain. Who’s going to be more responsible driving, the person who will live the rest of his life in poverty if he kills soneone, or the person who has it covered?
Yes, let’s hear some examples, you sententious twit.
There’s nothing worse than an industry person who drinks some of the kool-aid, or extrapolates one situation to every one.
Why would you pick $1 million as your magic number? Forgetting my tort question, what if you caused a 20-car pileup, and were found liable. Shoudl you be castigated for not carrying $20 million?
Actually the million covers personal liability as well as automotive liability. Not bragging about it, but you asked.
FTR large pileup accidents are treated differently from a liability standpoint than other losses involving simple liability. It’s clear that you have no understanding of such things so you should stick with what you know if you wish to present yourself as a contentious strawman-building prat with nothing better to do than try and reassure himself that strict compliance with the law equates to responsible and moral behavior.
You’ve been called a selfish asshole by someone you do not respect–why even waste your time with me? Get over it already. I work in the industry and see the incredible shortcomings of minimum liability, and I see people choosing it when they aren’t forced to financially but still have no assets to repair the damage they cause. I think I’m in a pretty good position to make a judgement call on the issue. I don’t get an employee discount, I buy what I buy because it jibes with what I see and what I feel is my responsibility as a driver.
Others do the same–they feel their responsibility as a driver is to thoughtlessly obey the letter of a law rather than assume real financial responsibility for what they do. No problem, I just think they’re assholes. Pretty sure they’ll get over it.