# Merits of Chinese Medicine **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merits-of-chinese-medicine/185446 "2003-06-30T22:27:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Susma\_Rio\_Sep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Susma\_Rio\_Sep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susma_Rio_Sep)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merits-of-chinese-medicine/185446/41 "2003-07-10T00:26:05Z")
Time to suggest to people who are not happy with conventional medicine, and are not in a life-threatening nor in an emergency situation, to try Chinese medicine - but keep to my tips on the employment of Chinese medicine. Experience is the best teacher, and for people who have not experienced Chinese medicine, try it. Experience is the best method of research here for the purpose of getting a possibly good medical remedy for little cost and with no harmful side effects. Here is a quote from Aristotle who forgot to look into the mouths of women to ascertain their number of teeth. > [@](#): > > \*\*Males have more teeth than females in the case of men, sheep, goats, and swine; in the case of other animals observations have not yet been made: but the more teeth they have the more long-lived are they, as a rule, while those are short-lived in proportion that have teeth fewer in number and thinly set. _(Aristotle, History of Animals, Book 2, Chapter 3.)_ \*\* So, as someone in Jesus’ times told his companions, I also say to you all not yet possessed of experience with Chinese medicine: “Come and see”. And remember true science tells us that many things or phenomena are not yet known in science as regards the explanation on present known scientific laws. Have a good experience and an adventure in Chinese medicine. But remember my tips in that thread on _Chinese Medicine, the Straight Dope, Please._ Susma Rio Sep ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merits-of-chinese-medicine/185446/42 "2003-07-10T01:43:30Z")
elelle, You can see why so many are so cynical of TCM when it has advocates like Susma … :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Harrison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5ac83/32.png) [@John\_Harrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Harrison)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merits-of-chinese-medicine/185446/43 "2003-07-10T21:31:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*Of how sick people die? No. Let me spell it out. > [@](#): > > Basically, most of it has abandoned the idea of developing drugs for sick people. The problem with sick people is that they either get better, or die, at which point they stop buying the drug. Since that statement is incredibley vague, my request for a cite applies like this: Which companies have “abandoned” development? What specific “drugs”? What is a “sick” person? ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merits-of-chinese-medicine/185446/44 "2003-07-11T01:34:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susma Rio Sep \* > > Here is a quote from Aristotle who forgot to look into the mouths of women to ascertain their number of teeth. > > quote: > > * * * > > Males have more teeth than females in the case of men, sheep, goats, and swine; in the case of other animals observations have not yet been made: but the more teeth they have the more long-lived are they, as a rule, while those are short-lived in proportion that have teeth fewer in number and thinly set. (Aristotle, History of Animals, Book 2, Chapter 3.) > > Susma Rio Sep \*\* I may rue the day, but I have to ask, Susma, what does this have to do with the topic of Chinese medicine? OK, bad teeth can be read as a sign of ill health, surely. It’s a quote from Aristotle, a wise man who furthered many modes of inquiry, but what does that quote have to do with this topic? I am quite open-minded, and have stepped up to bat here for the medical tradition you hold in such high regard. I respect TCM as well. Can you explain what you mean? ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merits-of-chinese-medicine/185446/45 "2003-07-11T03:35:41Z")
**Chinese medicine** is fine. There are many very good Chinese doctors and medical researchers. **Traditional Chinese Medicine** is not medicine. A treatment is either medicine - has been tested for efficacy and safety or it aint medicine. **SARS** started in rural China, where TCM is practiced, because the people dont have access to medicine. It took medicine to halt the spread of SARS. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merits-of-chinese-medicine/185446/46 "2003-07-11T03:45:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DSeid \* > \*\*BTW Elelle, there actually is quite a bit of research already done on the safety and efficacy of herbal meds. I’ve got a wonderful reference on my shelf at the office. Lots of studies done. Name an herbal med and I can look it up and find out a fair bit about it. Licorice … \ … so on. > > The research _is_ done often. Despite the fact that there is no huge profit involved. There is in fact a fair amount of governmental research budget specifically earmarked just for this purpose. \*\* Sure there are many medicines (well, most) derived from natural sources, since our body has similar metabolic pathways to plants. When those substances are extracted, made safe and delivered as a known dose that is effective, then you have a medicine. Doesnt matter if the original plant is from China, France or upper Kumbucta. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merits-of-chinese-medicine/185446/47 "2003-07-11T03:46:36Z")
Sorry - **U** pper Kumbucta. ---
**Author:** ![Susma\_Rio\_Sep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Susma\_Rio\_Sep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susma_Rio_Sep)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2003, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merits-of-chinese-medicine/185446/48 "2003-07-13T10:34:07Z")
My point is that everyone here who has not tried Chinese traditional medicine, please do, of course with my caveats. Now, about Aristotle, he was so sure of his views about women having less teeth that he did not even have the temptation to look into the mouths of women to ascertain whether in fact women do have less teeth than men. No offense, but read my excerpt from Aristotle again, and you will find some profound wisdom in favor of trying out things by direct personal experience, and also have a good laugh, at the expense of Aristotle. I am enjoying the thread terribly. My invitation again is for all of us to try something if we have never tried it, and it has not killed anyone but on the contrary can be of benefit. Best regards, Susma Rio Sep PS: I am a guy. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elelle \* > \*\*I may rue the day, but I have to ask, Susma, what does this have to do with the topic of Chinese medicine? OK, bad teeth can be read as a sign of ill health, surely. It’s a quote from Aristotle, a wise man who furthered many modes of inquiry, but what does that quote have to do with this topic? I am quite open-minded, and have stepped up to bat here for the medical tradition you hold in such high regard. I respect TCM as well. Can you explain what you mean? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2003, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merits-of-chinese-medicine/185446/49 "2003-07-13T10:50:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susma Rio Sep \* > \*\*Now, about Aristotle, he was so sure of his views about women having less teeth that he did not even have the temptation to look into the mouths of women to ascertain whether in fact women do have less teeth than men. > > No offense, but read my excerpt from Aristotle again, and you will find some profound wisdom in favor of trying out things by direct personal experience, and also have a good laugh, at the expense of Aristotle.\*\* **Susma** , you’re missing the point. **elelle** asked you what you were trying to say with the Aristotle quote, but you basically just repeated yourself and didn’t explain. I take it you’re trying to say that “direct personal experience” is valuable. It definitely is more valuable than _no_ experience - hence your example of Aristotle making assumptions about female dentition and not bothering to check if his assumptions were true. But I’m not sure where you’re trying to go with this, or if you think you’re making some kind of point. I’m guessing that you’re trying to say that “direct personal experience” is more valuable than no experience, and that since TCM is mostly “backed up” by “direct personal experience” (ie. antecdotes), that TCM should be taken seriously - and that we should all take your advice and go out and give TCM a try. Well, I guess antecdotes might be better than nothing, but they’re not nearly as good as scientific double-blind controlled studies. No modern scientists/doctors/pharmaceutical companies act like the Aristotle in your quote, just randomly making assumptions and treating people based on those assumptions. If anything, TCM is often carried out in a less-than-rigorous manner that is closer to the Aristotle you quoted than it is to modern scientific medicine. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merits-of-chinese-medicine/185446/50 "2003-07-13T18:08:31Z")
As to your claim that TCM “never killed anyone” … well that is just untrue. They are _medicines_ afterall. People have died from unintended effects. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merits-of-chinese-medicine/185446/51 "2003-07-13T20:54:22Z")
**Susma** Glad to see that you’re still with us. I asked a question earlier on that you seem to have missed. By enjoining us to try traditional Chinese medicine for non-life-threatenting problems, are you recommending I try ground-up rhinocerous horn for my erectile problems, or should I just stick with tigers’ paws? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merits-of-chinese-medicine/185446/52 "2003-07-17T10:20:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susma Rio Sep \* > Time to suggest to people who are not happy with conventional medicine, and are not in a life-threatening nor in an emergency situation, to try Chinese medicine - but keep to my tips on the employment of Chinese medicine. > > Experience is the best teacher, and for people who have not experienced Chinese medicine, try it. Experience is the best method of research here for the purpose of getting a possibly good medical remedy for little cost and with no harmful side effects. Well here is a real opportunity for you, Susma! I am the President of the British Society of Levitators (BSL). We are a registered charity in the United Kingdom (UK) and have obtained a patent from the UK Patent Office. We teach people how to levitate (to negate the Earth’s gravity field by using the electrical signals in their brain at the quantum level). BSL makes a charge for this teaching, but since BSL is a charity, it is only to cover our costs (paying me a salary and living expenses). We have numerous letters from BSL members stating how their lives have been changed by learning how to use this remarkable ability. These letters can be inspected at BSL Headquarters (please make an appointment first). Now I admit we have never passed a scientific test (double blind or otherwise).\* But **levitation has been around for thousands of years** (think of all those witches), and, most importantly, **we have numerous letters from BSL members!** As you say ‘Experience is the best teacher’ and ‘Experience is the best method of research’. So it **must** be worth trying. We accept all major credit cards, and I’m sure you’ll agree that $50,000 is a cheap price to learn levitation. (For you, I’ll bring the price down - how much have you got?) Send me your money today! - We think levitation (and all similar psychic powers) can be disrupted by sceptical scientists broadcasting negative thought waves to neutralise the effect. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merits-of-chinese-medicine/185446/53 "2003-07-17T17:08:58Z")
On the news this morning there was a piece on acupuncture as a treatment for infertility. Supposedly a study showed that women who had problems getting pregnant might benefit from acu. Now, I have no experience with acupuncture and have read very little about it. What I have read has led me to believe it’s not much use. What I’d like to know is, has anybody out here had any experience with acupuncture, either as a patient or researcher? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merits-of-chinese-medicine/185446.md?page=2)