# "Merry Christmas to those who celebrate" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 25, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090 "2022-12-25T19:21:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/41 "2022-12-27T11:54:00Z")
So you purposefully say something that you think will discomfort a person and you judge them worthy of that discomfort because of their skin colour and imagined religious affiliation? That doesn’t seem like a particularly nice thing to do. It seems _thoughtful_, but not in a good way. When someone says “Merry Christmas” to me I don’t make such religious and ethnic calculations or seek to unnecessarily put them out. I just say, “thank you, and to you too.” And I’m an atheist and always have been, I just assume that “merry christmas” is exactly the same as, and comes with the same sincerity as, “have a nice weekend” or “have a good day” but it merely gets a seasonal coat of paint. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/42 "2022-12-27T11:57:03Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So you purposefully say something that you think will discomfort a person and you judge them worthy of that discomfort because of their skin colour and imagined religious affiliation? Tell me why you think turning their thoughtlessness into a teachable moment is such a bad thing? My goal is to have them question why someone would make assumptions without foundation about a stranger, though I admit anger and hostility is the more typical response. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/43 "2022-12-27T12:10:24Z")
> [@Disinfectus](#): > > Well see, that’s the thing. To the people who I am close to, I’m pretty well-aware of what greeting is appropriate. On social media though, I have hundreds of “friends” that are really only passing acquaintances. I never hear people using the “if you celebrate” version in person, or to a small group of people. It’s always either a social media post or occasionally a mass email to everyone who works at my employer or everyone on some company’s mailing list. In other words, people for whom the sender probably _doesn’t_ have knowledge about which holidays they celebrate - forty-five years ago, I might have known what holidays my high school friend celebrated , but things may have changed since then. People sending out holiday emails at my employer were sending them to hundreds of people - and the manager three levels above me has no idea which I celebrate. I don’t do the “if you celebrate” thing with social media, etc. I think it’s ridiculous for someone to be offended because some one else says “Merry Christmas” or “Happy Hannukah” in a generic message. Sure, it’s “saying nothing” to those who don’t celebrate, but if some organization sends out a newsletter in which they wish " Happy birthday to members with a November birthday" , it’s not seen as offensive to be “saying nothing” to those whose birthday falls in the other 11 months. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/44 "2022-12-27T12:13:10Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > Tell me why you think turning their thoughtlessness into a teachable moment is such a bad thing? “Merry Christmas” is no more or less thoughtless than any other socially lubricating platitude and is no more requiring of a “teachable moment” than “goodbye” > [@slicedalone](#): > > My goal is to have them question why someone would make assumptions without foundation about a stranger Well you yourself certainly seem to be making a whole load of assumptions about a person based on their skin colour (which is an inexact ethnic signifier) their assumed religious affiliation (which you are unlikely to know) and the intent of their words (which may carry no religious intent or assumption at all) > [@slicedalone](#): > > I admit anger and hostility is the more typical response. hmmm, Whatever your intention, what you seem to be teaching people is that the sort of person likely to wish you a “merry kwaanza” in response is the sort of person who will also make a load of assumptions about you based on your skin colour and will want to try to make you feel bad based on their bad-faith interpretation of a completely benign, well meaning and, most often, secular greeting. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/45 "2022-12-27T12:21:42Z")
On the other hand, they could just wish me “Have a nice day” or a fine “Hey, there!” and no one would need to make any thoughtless assumptions about anyone’s religious beliefs at all. But that’s too much to ask, I understand. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/46 "2022-12-27T13:44:03Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > On the other hand, they could just wish me “Have a nice day” or a fine “Hey, there!” I guarantee that many, many people who wish you “merry/happy christmas” are doing precisely that and it carries no explicit religious baggage for them at all. As I’ve already said. I say it and I am an atheist. I am making no assumptions about other people by saying it. > [@slicedalone](#): > > and no one would need to make any thoughtless assumptions about anyone’s religious beliefs at all. But that’s too much to ask, I understand. You are assuming that people using the term are doing so with some underlying agenda or assumption. I’m not convinced that is true. I also find the reference to skin colour pretty off-putting. I’m not sure what that has to do with anything. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/47 "2022-12-27T14:19:42Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I also find the reference to skin colour pretty off-putting. I’m not sure what that has to do with anything. If I say “Merry Kwaana” to a black person, they might assume that I am stereotyping them, and I wouldn’t want to insult anyone accidentally. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/48 "2022-12-27T14:23:37Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > If I say “Merry Kwaana” to a black person, they might assume that I am stereotyping them, and I wouldn’t want to insult anyone accidentally. But you are OK with stereotyping certain groups and insulting them for no reason as long are you are doing it on purpose? ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/49 "2022-12-27T14:32:57Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > you are OK with stereotyping certain groups I’m not stereotyping the Christians who assume that I give a shit about their idiotic beliefs by imposing them on me, they’re stereotyping themselves. I’m just acknowledging that they’re making unwarranted and unwelcome assumptions about me. If they–or you–refuse to take the mild point of wishing them a merry Kwaanza, that simply reinforces my point that they–or you–are being willfully obtuse. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/50 "2022-12-27T14:35:10Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > I’m not stereotyping the Christians who assume that I give a shit about their idiotic beliefs by imposing them on me, they’re stereotyping themselves. I’m just acknowledging that they’re making unwarranted and unwelcome assumptions about me. You don’t know that a white person wishing you a “merry christmas” is a christian or is making any assumption about you at all. We clearly differ in what we think is reasonable behaviour and what assumptions and stereotyping is acceptable so I’ll leave you to carry on as you see fit. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/51 "2022-12-27T15:12:31Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I don’t wish to raise your hackles any further, but I think it’s important to note that Christmas (in the sense that it originates from a Christian festival) is a _season_ not just a _day_; it’s a festival that plays out over a period of time - like Passover or Ramadan. Eh, not from the people here - who I can reasonably assume, Christian or not, have an actual awareness of the history of the religious holiday of Xmas vs (in the US) semi-secular celebration that the majority adhere to. Upthread for example, how many people, outside of a song, know about the significance of the 12 days of Christmas? Heck, at least 4/5 of the Christians I know don’t go to church over the holiday at all (only the Catholics IME). I’d be willing to bet very few of the people who casually, or aggressively (per my prior post) say “Merry Xmas” from 12/1 through the date are doing it out of a sense of supporting the extended religious event. It’s not -zero- of course, but I suspect the few who are are drowned out by the unthinking or the culture warriors. ---
**Author:** ![TRC4941](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trc4941/32/6792_2.png) [@TRC4941](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TRC4941)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/52 "2022-12-27T15:37:48Z")
> [@TheCuse](#): > > I just say Merry Christmas. If no one likes it, oh well. Agree! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/53 "2022-12-27T15:43:56Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > If only there were a way to wish everyone happy holidays at once, without certain groups feeling like the inclusiveness is actually a slight against them. When you’re used to being on top, equality feels like discrimination. Whatareyagonnado? I think the only way past this is to keep saying “Happy Holidays” for another generation until the people getting worked up about it run out of steam. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/54 "2022-12-27T15:58:58Z")
This thread fills me with new vigor to greet my neighbors with “Hare Krishna,” “Merry Kwaanza,” “And a cheerful Hannukah to you” and “Have a fabulous Solstice!” ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/55 "2022-12-27T16:02:49Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I think the only way past this is to keep saying “Happy Holidays” for another generation until the people getting worked up about it run out of steam. I think there’s a lot of changes that need to be made that will, not only not be immediate but will take at least a full generation to really take hold. IMO, kids growing up not even knowing the old way of doing things means they’re not unlearning/relearning anything. Politics, LGBT rights, gun rights etc. Granted this cuts both ways, if you teach your kids to hate, they’ll grow up hating (and probably reinforce your own ideals), but I like to think/hope we’re making forward progress, even if there are setbacks along the way. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/56 "2022-12-27T16:02:50Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I’ll just take it in the spirit it is intended. > [@Mangetout](#): > > that’s fine and lovely > [@Mangetout](#): > > Take kindness wherever you can find it. I heartily agree~blessings on you! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/57 "2022-12-27T16:09:59Z")
I don’t think it really makes a lot of difference either way. The secular festival runs for a period of time too, not just a day. I don’t think there’s any particular reason to expect that it should be confined to one day. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/58 "2022-12-27T16:11:14Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > I heartily agree~blessings on you! ah, but are they white christian blessings, or darker-skinned blessings from some other belief system? Apparently these things matter to some. More seriously, of course I agree as well. We should all take things in the spirit they are intended. A clumsily-worded, well-intended sentiment will never offend me or cause me anything more than a moment’s pause for thought. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/59 "2022-12-27T16:14:46Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > but are they white christian blessings, or darker-skinned blessings from some other belief system They’re uppity woman don’t let the bastards win blessings. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090/60 "2022-12-27T18:56:24Z")
Some parts of the USA are pretty militantly Xian. Like if you mentioned out loud to your shopping companion that you were an atheist, nearby Moms would start herding their charges away from the Bad Man. Other places have plenty of Xians and Xian culture, but completely lack the militancy. I’ve lived in both sorts of places more than once over the years. The difference is real. And very stark. Folks who’ve never had the “privilege” of living in the militant areas may assume some posters here are overreacting. Probably not as much as they think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/merry-christmas-to-those-who-celebrate/977090.md?page=4)